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MalsInOz
Novice

Dec 1, 2003, 6:30 AM

Post #26 of 43 (4134 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

...."If I m not mistaken, ScH is not encouraged or sanctioned by ur country kennel club ! Unsure

so I was wondering maybe U can share with us here on how did U folks build up ur club and promote the interest in ScH , maybe we over here can learn a thing or two from U folks to improve the working scene in our country ! Tongue

".....

You're right, neither the National Kennel Club or the German Shepherd Dog Club of Australia endorse Schutzhund, which is very sad and narrow minded in my opinion. Especially the GSDCA, when they are members of the WUSV and are supposed to be breeding real GSD. Frown

The AUSC operates as a completely seperate organization and has been around for a long time. We would love to be accepted under the umbrella of the National bodies but they themselves will not allow it. Crazy

We really have not promoted the sport at all, many have come to our sport after getting interested in protection training or reading books about GSD/Rott/Dobe.

Do not think that the clubs need to be big to succeed. Our club, BSDC had about 15 active members when I started 4 years ago, now we only have 6! But our training now is so much better, we are all very focussed on the same training methods and we all really want to succeed on the trial field, with the ultimate aim of winning the National Championship.

Some things I have learnt in the short time i've been involved with the sport are:

1. Always keep in mind with your training that what you present on the field is what people will judge you by.

2. No-one has all the answers or the perfect system for you. You must always keep an open mind and listen to people that have the success behind them. There are many people in dog training that will pretend they know everything - this is never the case! Wink

3. Get the foundations perfect under extreme distractions one at a time (Sit, Heel, Drop etc.) and don't try to put them all together until the foundation is rock solid.

4. Watch videos of the big competitions and get a picture in your head of what the perfect "V" performance is and then aim for that. Be wary of people trying to tell you how to do it if their own dog is nothing like the perfect performance.

Evan

MalsInOz
Novice

Dec 1, 2003, 6:48 AM

Post #27 of 43 (4132 views)
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Re: [PSD] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ah PSD, you know seem to know quite a bit about the Australian scene, this is great!

I agree totally with your description of the Czech/DDR v German dogs.

Dark & Warkos may have gone to Kamptfrieb in South Australia or von Ultimate in Victoria - both specialise in Czech/DDR dogs. The other kennel is Vonhargadain but I don't know a lot about them.

Unfortunately I can't say I know readily of "Security Pekahia" either, I probably haven't been around the scene long enough and my main interest is in the Schutzhund scene, but I really want to get to know more about the Security & Personal Protection side of things for my own knowledge so I can see with my own eyes rather than take the word of somebody else! Wink

There is also a man out of Sydney that is starting to import some top pedigree dogs too, I'm not sure of his name but he imported Marko z Blatenskeho zamku who came runner up at the 2003 Australian Nationals.

Evan

RealityDreamer
Doggyman

Dec 1, 2003, 10:34 AM

Post #28 of 43 (4122 views)
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Re: [MalsInOz] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks very much for the link. Smile

as for the vonforell kennel link, no worries. 1 is better than none.
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)

(This post was edited by RealityDreamer on Dec 1, 2003, 10:36 AM)

PSD
ALPHA

Dec 1, 2003, 8:41 PM

Post #29 of 43 (4109 views)
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Re: [MalsInOz] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Evan,

Just happen to know some friends in OZ n you know working dogs are what our ten fingers can count...lol so it is a small world for us. It is a pity I did not know you while I was in the coast couple of months ago. I would have loved to learn from you guys how the club were set up in your place. It will be great experience for us to set up something here in malaysia too. At this moment we can only drool looking at what you already have eventhough you mentioned it being a small setup.

Literally, 2-3 people can already have a club running. What is important is quality than quantity. 5-6 ppl is nice but in my opinion 15 may be too many especially when working all the dog will take the whole day...hehehe wont you think so?

Those 2 dogs I mentioned does not belong to Kamptfrieb nor Ultimate. Ultimate have a great dog Darez Gerodonu while Kamptfreib recently got in Din Westwood a Czech blood from Westwood Kennel in US. Warkos is out of Titus line and is owned by von workdog kennel in Sydney. If my memory serves me right Warkos sired 4 litters in OZ so far and there are 4 pups in QLD Police force. Warkos is knows to pass down some serious attitude there likened by PD's

Dark on the other hand is a Tom's son. Large boned with extreem drive. You may want to consider this stud while you can if you planned to breed.

Ahhh, Marko is a great dog indeed. 2x Czech National Competitor. He is Grimm son. You guys have a lot of good studs in OZ. Use them and most importantly use them well.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

boon
Doggyman

Dec 1, 2003, 10:10 PM

Post #30 of 43 (4104 views)
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Re: [MalsInOz] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi,

yeah heard of the like when i was in gold coast last week. schh is not popular in aussie. hopefully in the short future it get recognize in your country and in malaysia too.

which part of brisbane r u from ?

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

Polluxx
Enthusiast

Dec 2, 2003, 5:46 AM

Post #31 of 43 (4094 views)
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Re: [MalsInOz] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Evan,

Quote:---------------------------------------------------
You're right, neither the National Kennel Club or the German Shepherd Dog Club of Australia endorse Schutzhund, which is very sad and narrow minded in my opinion. Especially the GSDCA, when they are members of the WUSV and are supposed to be breeding real GSD. The AUSC operates as a completely seperate organization and has been around for a long time. We would love to be accepted under the umbrella of the National bodies but they themselves will not allow it.
---------------------------------------------------------

Well we have the same problem here, but still I thk U guys did a great job in setting up AUSC ! !
hopefully we will be able to do the same here someday . . . Cool

BTW thanx for the advice ...will definitely keep them in mind ! . . . Wink

. . one other thing when do U guys normally hold ur Nat'l Championship ? or is there a website I can go to for the info ! !

"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)

MalsInOz
Novice

Dec 2, 2003, 5:57 AM

Post #32 of 43 (4093 views)
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Re: [PSD] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi PSD,

Yes we definitely find the smaller number of active members makes for enjoyable training with much better results.

I saw Darez at the 2002 Australian Championship - he was very impressive and intense in the Protection work with nice obedience too.

Marko was impressive in his protection work at this years Nationals, very strong with deep powerful grips. His tracking too is of the highest standard.

Have you seen any of "Axel" - Vonforrel Vilco, from Kuran v Teikerhook with Gento on his Dams side. Axel is the 2003 AUS Champion and is what I call an extreme working dog - he is a very athletic and very high drive dog all the time, with nerves of steel - he is completely unshakeable. I have worked Axel a lot over the past two years, especially leading up to the National Championships. I have also seen him worked by many people and in four years I can't remember him working in obvious defence - but he will always take the fight to you, no problem, anywhere, anytime, any stress, it does not matter to him! Pretty much all Kuran progeny I've seen carry with them the same excellent active aggression, with high defence thresholds.

I guess I like a more athletic type GSD for myself, that is probably why I have a Malinois! Tongue

They are much more like the original GSD. I hope my little GSD bitch will be like this, if her parents are a guide I don't think I will have a problem! Cool

Evan

MalsInOz
Novice

Dec 2, 2003, 6:06 AM

Post #33 of 43 (4092 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey Pollux,

The AUS was set up long before my time, but I'm sure it started with 2 or 3 people getting together to train. I know our club in the early days used to pay a German immigrant to travel the 4 hr round trip to train with them once a week. It must have been hard but the seed was sown!

When you get around to starting a club and thinking about an organisation, I'm sure people in the AUS would be willing to help where they can.

The Nationals are held on the Queens Birthday long weekend in June each year. The AUS has a web site under construction at the moment, hopefully it will be up and running soon.

This years Nationals are at the Gold Coast again. Victoria and Queensland have very active clubs so I think we will take turns hosting the Nats for another couple of years. The sport also seems to be gathering some momentum in NSW now too.

Evan

PSD
ALPHA

Dec 2, 2003, 7:42 PM

Post #34 of 43 (4073 views)
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Re: [MalsInOz] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Evan,

I have not seen Axel but I can never argue with what Kuran produces Smile

Is Kuran ever in OZ? Does he produces anyone else in OZ besides Axel?

Well I agree tht Mals has got loads of drive. If you have the time to work the dog will be great since they seamingly never tires...lol. What do you think of Mals since you have handled them? There were some questions on their handler sensitivities in general.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

MalsInOz
Novice

Dec 2, 2003, 8:49 PM

Post #35 of 43 (4067 views)
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Re: [PSD] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

PSD,

Kuran was definitely here in Australia at Vonforell kennels in VIC. I'm not sure, I think he may have been sold on some time ago.

Their are only still a few of his progeny active but he is in the lines of many dogs in the SchH community through the Cendraise Kennels in VIC.

I had heard so many things (As you do! Wink

) about the Malinois before I actually got one myself! One of those things was the handler sensitivity. I purchased a puppy earlier this year but didn't keep him very long as he was not what I was after. This pup was definitely not handler sensitive - I would almost say he was the exact opposite (and he had very sharp teeth! Crazy

). He was a very hard little man but was missing a couple of things I was looking for. My bitch on the other hand is hard to define, her sensitivity to me and corrections is probably slightly on the softer side, but that said it very much depends on the level of her drive at the time! Her recovery from unpleasant corrections or experiences is excellent so I don't have a problem with a little handler sensitivity, I feel it generally makes the dog more responsive to you and definitely makes training a lot more pleasant! Smile

Like all of our working dogs, it depends on which lines the dogs come from I guess.

The drive is exactly what I wanted though. I say it like this, "I am looking for a soda/soft drink bottle that I have to fight to keep the lid on all the time - not one I have to shake up every time!" Tongue

I definitely got what I wanted in her!

Evan

PSD
ALPHA

Dec 3, 2003, 12:27 AM

Post #36 of 43 (4060 views)
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Re: [MalsInOz] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Evan,

Yeah I know what you meant. Most of the time the dog needs to be looked at as an individual and line is only a guide not an assurance though. The rest is how the handler brings it up to become. This is why Max Stephanitz says "Show me your dog and I will tell you what manner of a man you are" Tongue

I find this to be absolutely true.

BTW, do you know of any Mink progeny's in OZ? something in the 3rd or 4th generation.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

MalsInOz
Novice

Dec 3, 2003, 1:01 AM

Post #37 of 43 (4056 views)
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Re: [PSD] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

PSD,

Re Mink progeny in Oz, see:

http://www.aachenkennels.com/

or

http://www.regalhaus.com.au/

I'm pretty sure both have dogs with Mink in the 3rd or Fourth gen.

Fax also carries Mink above his mother Fee.

Regards,

Evan

PSD
ALPHA

Dec 3, 2003, 1:47 AM

Post #38 of 43 (4053 views)
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Re: [MalsInOz] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Evan,

Thanks for the sites. Has there been any Mink progeny's doing exceptionally well in OZ? Especially in your nationals.

I will greatly appreciate that. may be looking at the opportunity to reintroduce mink into my own bloodline in future.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

MalsInOz
Novice

Dec 3, 2003, 6:08 AM

Post #39 of 43 (4049 views)
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Re: [PSD] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

PSD,

Right now, other than Fax, there are no Mink progeny even training in Australia that I know of/have seen. I think we will see Fax at the Nationals in 2004, it would be great to see all the "big boys" - Fax, Axel, Marko & Dares face off at the championship!

Another recent import to Australia, I'm sorry, I can't believe I left him out earlier - is "Larry von Karthago", he is Mink at the top of his pedigree 2nd generation. Larry was entered for the 2003 Nationals but pulled out before the event - I don't know why - apparently he has done SchH 3, 30 or more times in Germany, though I haven't seen or heard of his work yet.

Dennis Gallacher (co-owner of Larry) of Aachen Kennels in Western Australia would be the person to talk to if you wanted more information on Larry.

The depth of top titled dogs here is still very small, I think more for our relative lack of training skill/experience than for the dogs we have access to!

Hopefully, with the quality dogs that have been bred & imported here recently, plus the renewed enthusiasm of the whole schutzhund scene here since the 2002 Nationals and the recent changes to the AUSC board, things will start to progress rapidly.

Evan

PSD
ALPHA

Dec 3, 2003, 6:09 PM

Post #40 of 43 (4040 views)
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Re: [MalsInOz] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Evan,

When will the Nationals be in 2004 and where. If time permit, I will be interested to fly in and look see myself......Like you said, it aint true until u see wit own 2 eyes...lol Tongue

I saw Larry in Aachen's site. He was co-owned and believed he is in Melbourne if Im not wrong.....memory failure....too much dogs in my head already....kekekek Laugh

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

MalsInOz
Novice

Dec 3, 2003, 7:00 PM

Post #41 of 43 (4037 views)
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Re: [PSD] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

PSD

The 2004 AUSC Nationals is held on the Queens Birthday Long Weekend which this year falls on 12th, 13th & 14th June. We haven't got set dates yet but I would presume the actual competition will be held Friday 11th to Sunday the 13th, giving interstate visitors a day to drive home.

I will post here as soon as these dates are confirmed.

Yes Larry is co-owned by Dennis Gallacher of Aachen Kennels in Western Australia & Kris Kotsopolous of Vonforell Kennels in Melbourne. Larry stays and I think is being trained/worked by Kris.

I understand the pedigree names in your head, it gets confusing sometimes Laugh

Evan

PSD
ALPHA

Dec 3, 2003, 9:19 PM

Post #42 of 43 (4028 views)
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Re: [MalsInOz] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Gday mate,

Thanks. The dates will be great. I'll watch out for it.

Ahhhhh! Yes Kris, I remembered reading about Larry in his site but it has been down for quite a couple of months now. What happened? Hmmm! It was a nice site, a pity really.

Well Please do chip in to assist and share your experience whatever and whenever you can in your suggestion on training methods and problem solving in this forum especially in SchH. Members here will have plenty to learn from your experience. All beneficial advice will surely be appreciated. Smile

We need more technically inclined people like you around to see the big picture.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

boon
Doggyman

Dec 4, 2003, 12:05 AM

Post #43 of 43 (4021 views)
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Re: [MalsinOZ,PSD] Hello from Australia - Schutzhund Training [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi,

yea we need more people like u here to help and share. Wink

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

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