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Home: Behavioral Problems: Peeing and Poo Problem:
OLD dog's unwanted behaviour







makrawl
Canine Addict


Nov 8, 2003, 2:00 AM

Post #1 of 4 (1225 views)
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OLD dog's unwanted behaviour Can't Post

i'm using crate training to train my dogs about toilet manners outside the house. thing works ok for my Beauty as she is hand raise by me since she was 2 months old but not my Goldy as he came to my house only after he reached 1 year old. the owner before me didn't really train him for that. when he first came, he was such a "poo n pee machine" spreading his by product everywhere! especiallu when he tried to mark the place.

usually they'll poo twice a day (~8am and ~8pm) and pee at the same time (the rest of the day, i let them pee on my turf coz i'm working). sometimes they r really coorperate and finish their business within 10-15 minutes. but recently Goldy starts to "going back-ward". he'll just hold it and refuse to relief when i bring him out. when i give up and free him in the house compound, he run around and spread all his by products everywhere again! i was very angry coz i even wait for him to poo till i'm late to work! on weekend, i'm crate him back and wait for about half to 1 hour later and bring him out again and believe it or not, we were repeating the precedure (let go-wait and crate again) from 8am till 2pm. then i gave up as i'm going out to swim at 2pm, so i let him free at 2pm and IMMEDIATELY he POO pee everywhere! he knows i hate it so much when he pee on my wheel and still he wants to do it. after he pee on my wheel, he'll hide himself far far away from me even before i notice it.

from the book it said that if they dog has an unwanted behaviour, we MUST provide him another option to decrease the unwanted behaviour (for instant, the dog jump on u to beg for a pat, to decrease that behaviour, ask him to sit down first before u pat him, so, later he'll realise the sit position will be more rewarding than jumping up). i used the method recomended by the Taiwanese and Japanese (bring him back to the place, push his nose near the pee or poo and shouted NO with a slap on the bum) and the methods recommended by the westerner (DON"T punish the dog for that as he might thought pooing is a bad thing and he'll hide it better when he poo but still at the WRONG place, but clean the place thoroughly and always bring him there and praise him when he poo on the right place) and i even use clicker's training and food reward on that (the last two methods works very well on other tricks except this)

i realised that Goldy is very alert and takes up command better than Beauty but he just reluctant to follow sometimes. Beauty is kind of "stubborn" she just ignore my call sometimes. Goldy answer my calls very quick and always pay attention to my commands quite well (fast).

so guys, what i'm trying to know is, is that really true that u can't teach and old dog new tricks?? (in my case is, once the behaviour is established, can i 100% eliminate it (or not to be greedy 90%)?)

i know that the tricks will fall apart sometimes but it's been months and looks like we r getting no where!) phew........

MakPirate


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Nov 8, 2003, 3:11 AM

Post #2 of 4 (1220 views)
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Re: [makrawl] OLD dog's unwanted behaviour [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ...

It is always possible to re-train a dog ... it may take longer because you may have to un-train and then re-train ... but it is not impossible. And with bright dogs ... they learn pretty quick ...

You say that Goldy is going backwards and not relieving himself ...

You wrote: " ... i used the method recomended by the Taiwanese and Japanese (bring him back to the place, push his nose near the pee or poo and shouted NO with a slap on the bum) ..."

Perhaps you can consider this ...

Is it possible that by adopting the above method - you have actually "trained" Goldy to think it is wrong to pee or poop? ... And therefore Goldy is now apprehensive of relieving himself when you are around? ... Could it be that your dog is now showing the results of your "training" and hides after he pees and poops.

Suggest that you stick to praise and positive training methods ... there are quite a few threads dealing with housetraining a dog. Regardless of whether the dog is a pup or mature, the same methods will apply with a few sensible changes ...

A little tip ... many dogs poop after a little exercise ... try taking your doggies for a walk in the morning and evenings to get their muscles and bowel action going ... and that might be a good way to start establishing a reasonable poop routine for your dogs. Remember to take a poop bag and clean up after ... Smile

And from your posting ... It is also possible that you might be crating your dog too much ... A dog crated on and off from 8am to 2pm is likely to relieve itself as soon as he is set free ... paticularly if the dog has been trained to be afraid to pee or poop when with its owner.

The punishment training method coupled with the on off crating may be compounding the difficulties you are facing with Goldy.

Please consider not crating your dog during weekends ...

Cheers Smile


makrawl
Canine Addict


Nov 9, 2003, 8:29 AM

Post #3 of 4 (1210 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] OLD dog's unwanted behaviour [In reply to] Can't Post

actually i've stop using the methods recomended by the Taiwanese books. i found out that it doesn't work at all. these days i'm encouraging them to poo and praise them once they have finish their business on the right place. as for the wrong place, i'll just hold my temper and clean it up (that was very hard at the beginning)

and for the crating, it is less than 10 hours these days. (for the case i've mentioned, was months ago and i don't like it too) send them into the crate at night about 11-12 and release about 7-8 the next morning.

thanks for the suggestion.


Kowpa
Member

Nov 9, 2003, 11:31 PM

Post #4 of 4 (1204 views)
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Re: [makrawl] OLD dog's unwanted behaviour [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
actually i've stop using the methods recomended by the Taiwanese books. i found out that it doesn't work at all. these days i'm encouraging them to poo and praise them once they have finish their business on the right place. as for the wrong place, i'll just hold my temper and clean it up (that was very hard at the beginning)

and for the crating, it is less than 10 hours these days. (for the case i've mentioned, was months ago and i don't like it too) send them into the crate at night about 11-12 and release about 7-8 the next morning. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hope you understand this
Crate training dogs or puppies provides them with a "den". A den is something they can relate to. It makes them feel safe and secure while sleeping or resting. Some people say that crate training is cruel. They couldn't be more wrong.

In addition to helping them feel safe and secure, crate training dogs has other benefits:

1. Aids in puppy potty training.

2. Eliminates the chance of your dog or puppy getting into something harmful when you're not watching. (ie. under the counter cleaners, electical cords behind the couch)

3. Prevents accidents from happening on that nice new carpet!

The second and third advantages of crate training dogs are no brainers, lets talk about the first. How can crate training help you with puppy potty training? Easy, puppies desire to keep their sleeping area clean.

Now you can't just combine the two right off the get go.


If you have already purchased a crate, make it all nice and comfy with a soft towel or small pillow. If you planned on the future and bought a large crate you will need to shrink the space down for your puppy. Put some boxes in the back or something. If you give him too much room he will use one side to sleep and the other as a bathroom.

At the beginning of crate training dogs you do not want to shut the door so tie it open or bungy it. Introduce your puppy to the inside of the crate by coaxing him in with a tasty treat. Toss it in the crate once he knows you have it. As he steps in, give him whatever command you decided to use. "Kennel" is popular and easy to remember.

He's inside with no fuss, PRAISE him!

"Good Kennel boy, Good Kennel!"

Now if he decides to hang out and explore great. If not, that's no big deal either. Repeat this crate training dogs exercise 4-6 times then take a break. I'd repeat this 4-5 times throughout the day. At some point you'll realize he has this game down and is comfortable so you'll want to advance in the crate training by shutting the door.

Now understand some puppies will become very vocal about this and put up a fuss. It is very important that you let him get it out of his system and quiet down BEFORE you open the door. Doing anything else will quickly train the puppy that all he has to do to get out is make alot of noise.

Stick near the crate as long as it takes. Once he quiets down open the door and let him come out if he wants. When he does don't make a big deal out of it. Think of it this way. If you ignore him when you crate him and then jump up and down to play with him when you let him out, you will teach him that the crate is not a fun thing.

To advance your crate training from here simply add more and more time before you let him out. Don't go too long though, if he goes to the bathroom in the crate it will set your training backwards bigtime. If you have to be gone for more than 2-4 hours you should make arrangements with someone to let your puppy out. As he gets older obviously this problem will subside.

And always remember NO COLLAR when he is crated. He could choke himself. That goes for small toys too. Use a black kong or something just as tough.

Theres crate training dogs in a nutshell. Be patient and remember, keep it fun for your dog



 
 




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