Home


  Main Index MAIN
INDEX
FAQ FAQ & HELP FAQ PHOTO GALLERY Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN

Home: Behavioral Problems: Behavioural Issues - General:
I got Bitten by my dogs!!





First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All


kaerb
Member


Oct 5, 2002, 6:22 AM

Post #1 of 84 (12996 views)
Shortcut
I got Bitten by my dogs!! Can't Post

hey guys...a terrible incident happened to me yesterday. I accidentally got bitten when I tried seperating my two dogs who was fighting. It was my fault actually coz I did not seperate them using the proper way, instead out of sheer panic, I dived my hand in the midst of their fight and got my finger ripped. well, it wasn't that bad except I am running a high fever plus a finger as big as a banana...However, that's not bothering me...my dog trainer says it's bcoz the two male dogs are trying to establish who's the leader of the pack. He also told me they will keep on fighting until one of them DIE!!! I don't know what to do, I really don't want to give anyone of them up...n I don't wish to see any of my dogs suffer everytime they finish a fight. Both of them are American Pit Bull Terriers, and when they fight, there is blood everywhere. Anyone has any ideas to offer me? I really do not want to see any of them get hurt anymore.

pls help me!!!!!


leopui
K9 Maniac

Oct 5, 2002, 6:37 AM

Post #2 of 84 (12991 views)
Shortcut
Re: [kaerb] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

How To Break Up A Dog Fight Without Getting Hurt!

I will start with a warning. Unless you have a lot of experience do not try and break up a dogfight by yourself. Never step in the middle of two loving pets and try and grab them by the collar to stop a dogfight. If you try this, the chances of you being badly bitten are extremely high. People don't understand that 2 animals in the middle of a fight are in survival drive. If they see you at all, they don't look at you as their loving owner. When you charge in and grab them they either react out of a fight reflex and bite, or they see you as another aggressor. When they are in fight or flight they will bite you. You can take that to the bank.

For your information. The safest way to break up a dogfight requires 2 people. Each person grabs the back feet of one of the dogs. The dog is picked up like a wheelbarrow. With the legs up, both dogs are then pulled apart. Once they break apart, it is critical that the people do not release the dogs or the fight will begin again. They need to start to turning in a circle, or slowly swinging the dogs in a circle while they back away from the other dog. This stops the dog from curling and coming back and biting the person holding their legs.

By circling the dog, the dog has to sidestep with its front feet or it will fall on its chin. As long as you slowly continue to back and circle, the dog cannot do any damage to you. To insure that the fight will not begin all over again when you release the dogs, one of the dogs needs to be dragged into an enclosure (i.e. a kennel, the garage, another room) before the dog is release. If they do not do this, the dogs will often charge back and start fighting again.

Dogfights are a very dangerous thing to try and break up alone. You should never rush in and try and grab the dogs to pull them apart. They are in high "fight drive" and are not thinking clearly when fighting. If someone grabs them they will bite without even thinking about who or what they are biting. This is how your loving pet can bite the living crap out of you in about a second and a half. In reality it probably doesn't even know its you that it's biting. I compare it to a bar fight. If a person comes up behind 2 guys fighting and just reaches out and grabs the shoulder of one of the combatants most of the time the fighter is going to turn and throw a punch without even looking at who or what he is hitting. This is because his adrenalin in pumping and he s in 'fight drive.’

The worst-case scenario is that you are alone when a serious fight breaks out. There are a couple things that you must keep in mind:
  • Keep your cool you have a job to do
  • Do not waist time screaming at the dogs. It hardly ever works.
  • Your goal is still the same; you must break up the fight without getting hurt.
  • Go get a leash (allow the fight to continue while you do this).
  • Dogs are almost always locked onto one another. Walk up and loop the leash around the back loin of the dog by either threading the leash through the handle or use the clip. I prefer the thread method.
  • Now slowly back away and drag the dog to a fence or to an object that you can tie the leash to. By doing this, you effectively create an anchor for one of the dogs.
  • Then walk around and grab the back legs of the second dog and drag it away from the dog that is tied up. Remember to turn and circle as they release.
    Drag the dog into a dog pen or another room before you release the back legs.
  • Go back and take the dog off the fence and put him or her into a dog kennel.
  • Sit down and have a stiff drink (or two).
People talk about using cattle prods or shock collars to break up 2 pets that fight. I can tell you that many times this is not going to work. The electric cattle prod or electric collar will only put the dogs into higher fight drive. When they are shocked they will turn and bite the prod, or when they are shocked they will think the other dog is causing the pain and they will fight harder. An electric collar is best used in conditioning training, but not during an actual dogfight.

I had an oversea friend tell me that using a stun gun works. Not to actually shock the dog, but just to hold it in your hand and allow it to snap. The sound of the electrical snap is supposed to cause the dogs to stop fighting. I will muzzle 2 of my dogs and let them go at it to see if this works. I will be surprised if it works on 2 really strong dogs going after each other ... anyway, civilian cannot own any stun gun in Malaysia not unless you are a license holder!!!

A point I would like to make is that if you see two dogs out there squaring off through body posturing (ie one dog with stiff legs and tail straight up in the air putting his head over the shoulders of the other to show dominance) do not run out there screaming "NO NO NO!!!!" Most of the time this is going to trigger the fight. A lot of times dogs will posture and one will give in and back away. They settle their dominance issue without a battle. I NEVER, NEVER, NEVER recommend testing this situation. It's not worth the fight that erupts if you are wrong. But I can tell you of a couple of situations at my kennel where I went outside and 2 males (there were two cases that involve my two females) were loose that I would have thought would fight to the death. Obviously they determined that today is not the day to argue. I also know that had I gone out screaming before they settled it themselves there would have been a nasty fight.

If you have 2 dogs that you are trying to get to live together it’s best to make them wear muzzles all the time. With muzzles on you can safely step in and really get after the dogs. Its important to make sure the muzzles are properly fit and on securely. It's also a good idea to have the dogs wear 18-inch draglines. When one of the dogs even acts like it is going to challenge the other dog you need to get after it. If the dog shows any sign of aggression towards you, take it to the ground and ALPHA ROLE it. **** DO NOT EVER TRY AND ALPHA ROLE A DOG WITHOUT A MUZZLE ON!!!!!!

Remember that females usually fight with females and males usually fight with males. It's seldom that a male and female will fight. When a male fights with a female it usually a very dominant male who is displaying his dominance over the female and she wants nothing to do with it. I have had to gas one of my stud dogs twice when he got into it with a female who did not want anything to do with him. This usually is going to happen with a dominant male that is very self-confidant, and thinks that he is the pack leader. You will also have males with strong sex drive go after a bitch that is not receptive to them.

The bottom line on dogfights is that unless you are trained it is best to never step into the middle of them. In the worst case, let them fight. It may resulted in death or sever injury to one of the dogs, but it's not worth the damage it could cause to you if you make a mistake trying to end the fight.

A last word of warning. If your or someone you are with gets bitten and has to go to the emergency room, the most common treatment is to leave the dog bite wounds open so they can drain. They normally should not be stitched. The only time most doctors will stitch up a dog bite is if it's on the face. By closing the wound there is a much higher chance of infection. If the doctor that you see wants to stitch normal puncture wounds, ask for a second opinion. Because of my experience with police dogs I knew better than to allow my hospitals physicians assistant to stitch my employee. I voiced my concern but she insisted on stitching. I should have asked for a doctor's opinion. The wounds got infected and we had him back in the emergency room (at a different hospital) 2 days later. They took the stitches out, inserted packing and put him on "IV's " with antibiotics.

One more thing ... you really need to study the breed as well as it individual lineage, this would actually HELP to prevent un-wanted incident!!!
LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!

(This post was edited by leopui on Oct 5, 2002, 6:52 AM)


cdmoo
ALPHA


Oct 5, 2002, 7:08 AM

Post #3 of 84 (12984 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leopui] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

hi leopui,

very well explained! cool! Cool

i once (with help from my colleague, then) separated the 2 fighting GSDs (trained guard dogs).... We did not know what to do, as the two well-mannered / trained male GSDs decided to go amok and fight. Finally, both of us had to pull their tails so hard that they literally lost balance and fall.

I sworn (Smile) I would never interfere into a dog fight anymore Crazy

kaerb, i'm sorry to hear that u'got bitten, ASTs are real fighting machine!

Smile
regards,

CD Moo





(This post was edited by cdmoo on Oct 5, 2002, 7:11 AM)


leopui
K9 Maniac

Oct 5, 2002, 7:18 AM

Post #4 of 84 (12981 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cdmoo] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi CD Moo,

Pulling their tail ... luckly they're GSD, what about the breed like Rottweiler or Doberman that with little tail Tongue ??? Hahahahaha, I am just pulling a FAST one Cool Cool Cool !!!

I am glad that the explaination is clear, I would take 40% credit since I have "re-modify" from the original note, which was given to me during one of the training seminar.

Trained dog normally have higher level of drive than the average dog, therefore, one need to identify it capablilities to own one ... and I do not re-commend two alpha male dog in one house-hold unless you are above all of it!!!
LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!


cdmoo
ALPHA


Oct 5, 2002, 7:26 AM

Post #5 of 84 (12979 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leopui] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

hi leopui,

if they were rotti or doberman, presumably we would be dead then! Crazy

no, i didn't own those GSDs, I worked along with them...many years back when I was a dog-handler for a few months., that's when i fell in love with large breed dogs. During those days, there were absolutely no Rotti., but GSDs and Doberman as guard dogs..

Smile
regards,

CD Moo





leopui
K9 Maniac

Oct 5, 2002, 7:34 AM

Post #6 of 84 (12978 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cdmoo] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi There,

I was just imagine after reading the replies post ... if ever we came across the fight, what can we really do???

Those with tail ... we can pull it Smile !!!

Those without or with little tail ... we can still pull it but it is their ear we are talking about Tongue !!!

Those with very short tail and the combat style of ear cropping ... where to pull then Crazy ???

<G> ... my imagination is getting wired now Unsure !!! Hahahhahahahahaha!!!
LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!


luckey
ALPHA


Oct 5, 2002, 8:49 AM

Post #7 of 84 (12972 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leopui] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

hey thanks for the tips! We've had a dog die on us from dogfighting. 2 GSD sisters fighting... they got under the van and we couldnt get them out until one of them was so severely bitten that we had to put her down.

another time my hubby and i tried to separate these two dogs (not our own) when they were fighting, I picked one up while he held on to the other one (they were small dogs) - the one he held bit him real hard on the arm (completely swollena nd bleeding) and then ran to me to try to climb up my leg to bite the dog i was holding and bit me in the bum!


arthur
ALPHA


Oct 5, 2002, 8:54 AM

Post #8 of 84 (12972 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leopui] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Leopui,

How to break up a dogfight:

Step #1 - Read Leopui's detailed explaination on above subject matter.

Step #2 - If in doubt, repeat step #1 until it sinks in..

Step #3 - After resolving dogfight with minimum bloodshed, calm down with stiff drink and call Leopui to say "Thks mate! I owe you one."

Seriously, thks for the really useful tips on this subject and more importantly, the dynamics behind a dogfight and how to prevent them from happening in the first place. Very useful for a multidog household like mine. Rdgs Arthur


leopui
K9 Maniac

Oct 5, 2002, 6:30 PM

Post #9 of 84 (12966 views)
Shortcut
Re: [luckey] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I always thought that only male dog would fight among themselves until i have witness my two females in the fight. And like you, I have to put down one female cos her under jaw was basically dropped and almost splited into two ... Unsure Pirate!!!

Anyway, that's history and hopefully nothing serious like this would happen to my kennel again ... Angelic !!!
LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!


melanie
Enthusiast

Oct 5, 2002, 6:35 PM

Post #10 of 84 (12965 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leopui] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

LEOPUI,

It is a clear explaination u wrote, but I am still imagining to pull the two back legs of a GSD or any large breed dogs and make a circle will be though for a ladyCrazy

They are very heavy.....

Is there any way to prevent the two dogs fighting? Than it will be dangerous to keep two dogs in a house rite?? They will get jealous!

Regards


leopui
K9 Maniac

Oct 5, 2002, 6:42 PM

Post #11 of 84 (12964 views)
Shortcut
Re: [arthur] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Arthur,

I would "add" some more ... [again!?!]Tongue

Establishing your alpha position over your dog like in military camp ... you are in better position to control Cool !!!

I got more than six dogs getting into serious fight before i came to learn about this ... the tips that I learn is useful and I thought I SHOULD share to those who may need it at time ... Angelic
LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!


leopui
K9 Maniac

Oct 5, 2002, 7:31 PM

Post #12 of 84 (12961 views)
Shortcut
Re: [melanie] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

... Is there any way to prevent the two dogs fighting? Than it will be dangerous to keep two dogs in a house rite?? ...

Yes ... owner must study about the breed and to learn each character like. Choose the type of temperament that suit your life-style most ... it is almost something like buying a car, if yoiu are a gentle driver - go for something stable and less power. But if you are born to be a fast driver that like high speed, then a spot car will do good over your requirement.

Select or buy from erthical breeder so that you don't get a $XXX dog that you are not aware about it temperament!

Owner should establish his/her alpha position over his/her dog. This can be done over training and some communication.

Owner must be fair treating all the dog he/she own especially when the old dog feel that it position is in the edge of being losing the care by the owner.

Build a strong kennel runs and locked one dog while you are letting the other out!!! You will still need to supervise them Angelic.

I have not came across the fight between a male & a female dog, therefore, keeping two dogs in one household is not dangerous!!! Cool

By the way, speaking about lefting and carrying them ... I guess civilian owner should look into the good prastice to learn how to do so every now and then ... a law-enforcement Dog handler MUST be able to carry his dog and run for 3 KM ... this is to ensure that when situation like the dog is hurts, the handler can be able to send and seek for help Angelic.

Did I managed to get you some ideas ... Melanie??? Wink Wink Wink
LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!


kaerb
Member


Oct 5, 2002, 8:28 PM

Post #13 of 84 (12959 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leopui] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

hei...That is some good advice..I really appreciate everyone's suggestions esp leo pui's!!!! As I mentioned, it wasn't the dogs fault, it's my mistake. I knew how to seperate them but I was too "kan cheong" at that time. I have 4 of them, 2 males n 2 females. I read that females tend to fight as well..so is there any way I could prevent what is happening to my males to my females??? They are still puppies now but they are already starting to growl at each other. I still donno what to do abt my 2 males...muzzle them the whole day seems so cruel, seperating them is not an option as well.....when they start to fight...it's not like some show, it hurts me bad just to even hear them. I can't see anything, coz it happens so fast..yet I can hear the growls, the tearing of the skin, and at last the cracking bones. I don't want that to happen!!!
And did I mention that my APBTs are only 6 months? I don't even know where they get their strength....another thing, my dogs know better than to bite me or my family. So many times we have seperated them, they have never turned around and bit us...it was only my foolishness tht lead to this!!!
I guess..I should b lucky coz at least I still got my finger....my trainer's workers finger got bit off in a similar incident. THANX people!!!! I am so touched at the warm response...............


leopui
K9 Maniac

Oct 5, 2002, 9:10 PM

Post #14 of 84 (12956 views)
Shortcut
Re: [kaerb] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello Kaerb,

I have no ideal about your APBT's lineage ... since they are only six months old ... you may need to perform obedience training to your dog.

Once they are "well-trained" and obey your command, get an assistance from your friend to hold one of your male dog and you are holding the other one with teh gate distance about 10 feets apart ... you need to muzzle the both dog and with strong leash (a short traffic leash best suit) and choke-chain ... and keep the dog at your left side.

Ask you friend to walk the direction to you and likewise, you are walking to his direction. When you both meet, you two dog also meet ...

If any male dog started to growl, a quick jerk on the leash and pull the dog into down position with a loud and firm voice - NO. This is to establish your alpha status. If the other male dog follow and growl, do the same thing then. Repeat it for a few time until you can both using longer leash to control the dog ...

There are few ways you may like to consider and work with your trainer friend ... I can't provide you that unless you are in training with us, beside I am not good in putting it on word Blush !!!

02 males & 02 females ... it will be wise to have them kennel individually, the serious fight would occur normally within in the same sex for alpha status!!!
LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!


melanie
Enthusiast

Oct 5, 2002, 9:18 PM

Post #15 of 84 (12954 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leopui] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi LEOPUI,

I thnk I understand. Currently kiddi is a female, thats mean the next pup I get should be a male in order not to fight!

As for the carrying, today will go back and try to lift her upTongue

TQ


leopui
K9 Maniac

Oct 5, 2002, 9:42 PM

Post #16 of 84 (12951 views)
Shortcut
Re: [melanie] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Melanie, you got the point right ... but you may like to look into the individual temperament ... that would match with your present dog and your life-style too!!!

As for lefting the dog - walk or run and let them stay calm in your arms ... this proved that you are capable in handling your dog Smile ... Good on you!!! Two more advantages on this excerise;

1) Would also put you into top health Wink &

2) Would help you to prepare for gaining sufficient strenght to "throw" away your boy-friend or hubby when required ... Tongue Cool Laugh!!!

Pulling a fast .................... LOL!!! Sly
LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!


luckey
ALPHA


Oct 5, 2002, 11:41 PM

Post #17 of 84 (12948 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leopui] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey how about using water to separate dogs if you can't perform the wheelbarrow thing, e.g. with dogs that are big and quick (can turn around and catch you by mistake with teeth)...

Although i know water doesnt work if they are REALLY crazy at it


leopui
K9 Maniac

Oct 6, 2002, 12:19 AM

Post #18 of 84 (12946 views)
Shortcut
Re: [luckey] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry to inform you that ... water-shooting in this case served no purpose not unless you point the hose directly to their nose and shoot!!!

Drop by to Sarawak and I will show you another method that did not record in the book ... Cool Cool Cool !!!
LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!


luckey
ALPHA


Oct 6, 2002, 4:01 AM

Post #19 of 84 (12941 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leopui] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

hehe... my hubby tried what you described - the wheelbarrow thing - the dog was not in a fight, he just wanted to see what the dog did, and she turned around and tried to bite him real fast...

you sure when you do this you cannot get bitten?


leopui
K9 Maniac

Oct 6, 2002, 4:18 AM

Post #20 of 84 (12940 views)
Shortcut
Re: [luckey] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Be alpha ... carried the both hind leg backward and give command should do fine. You may need some strenght to lift it up!!!

The dog will not be able to bite you when you are carry up his both hind leg unless he have being trained in YOGA Tongue !!!

If ever the dog try to bite you still, give it a kick with your leg ... and that would definite show your alpha and setteld Cool !!!
LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!


luckey
ALPHA


Oct 6, 2002, 5:02 AM

Post #21 of 84 (12936 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leopui] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

hahahha yoga ... *lol* no our dogs havent gone for yoga class ...

ok, will try if there's a real fight, but wouldnt want to kick the dog for no reason...

no chance dog can break their leg in wheelbarrow postion is there?


leopui
K9 Maniac

Oct 6, 2002, 6:09 AM

Post #22 of 84 (12933 views)
Shortcut
Re: [luckey] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

You are just pulling their leg instead of twisting it ... right Wink Tongue Cool ???
LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!


luckey
ALPHA


Oct 6, 2002, 7:09 AM

Post #23 of 84 (12930 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leopui] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

hahaha... ok geddit. Oh got the pun too, pulling their leg?


kaerb
Member


Oct 6, 2002, 7:16 PM

Post #24 of 84 (12922 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leopui] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

hey people...juz to let everyone know, I sent away one of my males to my parents' house back in Sitiawan. Although it pains me juz to b seperated fr my beloved companion, it's for the best. My family has already decided to sent the other male for his kindergarden classes...hopfully it will turn out ok. My trainer says that trainning would not solve the fighting prob, but I guess that's not going to b a problem now coz there is only 1 male left. The funny thing I would like to mention is that my two males are not 24hrs agressive towards each other. They can sleep n play together, then it's like WHAM!!!! they start fighting. I don't know why, but I also noticed it's when we are around with them, then they start fighting. I thank everyone who has given me so much advice....

*To my Rusty....I will always love you!!!!*


leopui
K9 Maniac

Oct 6, 2002, 8:41 PM

Post #25 of 84 (12917 views)
Shortcut
Re: [kaerb] I got Bitten by my dogs!! [In reply to] Can't Post

... my two males are not 24hrs agressive towards each other. They can sleep n play together, then it's like WHAM!!!! they start fighting. I don't know why, but I also noticed it's when we are around with them, then they start fighting ...

Dog will go into a variety of drives, prey, fight and even defense depending on how the situation in play-time. Let me give you some picture when we work our dog ...

Assuming you're building up your dog’s bite development, when the decoy puts on the sleeve the first time, your dog would be working on prey drive. When the decoy notices that the dog is focused on the job, he will start introducing some threatening moves, i.e. frontal positioning with threatening stare, to trigger the dog’s defense drive. Once the dog displays the desired defensive behavior, i.e. challenging stare back at decoy, fighting for the sleeve, the decoy can then revert to prey moves or gives the dog the reward (submitting to the dog’s challenge by giving up the prey item (sleeve). Now do you see the different or can you picture the scenario???


... My trainer says that trainning would not solve the fighting prob ...

I do not know who is the trainer you are referring to but he does have a point about this issue. What I am going to add is that, a trainer should be able to understand the different drives and to channel it to different situation ... on the other word, it mean, build it specify drive for specify work instead of becoming dog aggressive!!! May be you would like to word and work with your trainer about this???

Good luck to you, Kaerb.

LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All
 
 




Copyright 2001~ 2002 Hileytech Sdn Bhd , All Rights Reserved.  Disclaimer  Privacy Statement
For comments and Suggestion, Please contact the Webmaster at puppy@puppy.com.my