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Timid! Any Ideas?

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shyeow2
Canine Addict

Aug 25, 2003, 9:09 PM

Post #1 of 28 (2313 views)
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Timid! Any Ideas?	Can't Post

Hi everyone,

I have a small pup which very timid. Any way to increase his confident?

Examples :

1) He will scare even a pcs of paper if he never see that pcs of paper is there before. (in the house)

2) He scream when he see other dogs approach him (not even bite / touch him yet)

3) He looks scare whenever jogging men pass by him. etc.
Frown

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strawberry
Novice

Aug 25, 2003, 9:58 PM

Post #2 of 28 (2308 views)
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Re: [shyeow2] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I guess u need to socialized ur dog often. always bring him to walk during evening so that he will used to the surrounding.

hunter
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 26, 2003, 2:05 AM

Post #3 of 28 (2302 views)
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Re: [shyeow2] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi,

how old is your puppy?

regards,
hunter

shyeow2
Canine Addict

Aug 26, 2003, 6:14 PM

Post #4 of 28 (2295 views)
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Re: [hunter] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

he is coming 6 months.
Frown

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http://jojothemalaysianmongrel.blogspot.com Frown

surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 27, 2003, 8:34 AM

Post #5 of 28 (2284 views)
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Re: [shyeow2] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello ...

When dealing with a fearful, timid or shy puppy, I�d suggest taking a step back and taking a deep breath before taking any action ... training mistakes can often make the situation worse ... and caution is required.

In a puppy or young dog, timidity often stems from fear. Puppies are fearful because they have learnt fear � whether because they have been punished, lack socialisation, been frightened or mishandled intentionally or accidentally �

You have done very well to identify the times when the puppy is frightened ... The examples you have listed suggest that the puppy may have been attacked by older dogs and is frightened of people (or perhaps even men) � overpunished? Unsure

Many dog behaviourists believe that the 5 to 13 week period is critical for puppies. Lack of socialisation or learning of fear during this period can affect the puppy for the rest of its life.

Bad, irresponsible or inexperience breeders can do much damage during this period � They even have a name for it � �kennelosis� � Puppies isolated for prolonged periods in crates or cages, suffering trauma caused by older dogs or people, lack of human contact & socialisation, excessive punishment all contribute to making a timid or frightened pup.

A timid dog lacks confidence and is afraid to trust people. Timidity must be resolved as best as possible or it can escalate into fear biting or fear aggression �

You must now instil confidence and build trust. As with people, �trust� cannot be forced or trained. We can only earn our dog�s �trust� with love, much patience and consistency over a period of time.

� Learn about and avoid �threatening� postures.

� Crouch when you greet, play or pet your dog.

� Do not hold your arms by your side, relax and spread your arms.

� Avoid staring at your puppy �

� Keep your vocal tone high � cheerful �

� Always praise. Nothing builds confidence like praise Smile

.

� Avoid formal training periods for the time being � concentrate on fun � play chase, fetch � lots of hugs � lots of love.

� With a timid dog, always try and try to avoid using punishment to train, punishment will be counterproductive. Already lacking confidence, punishment only makes matters worse. If other behavioural problems exist � use praise & reward methods rather than reprimand.

Good luck ... Smile

sun-arrow
Member

Sep 5, 2003, 2:02 AM

Post #6 of 28 (2270 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi! My puppy used to be quite timid too! he would run away in fear when there were loud noises like pots dropping, clanking, loud barking dogs, and even when I made noises with the newspaper. He also ran away when there's loud motorbikes, approaching bicycles, and little toddlers (due to bad experience from the first toddler he met, that little 18 months old boy came near and hit my then 4 mths sunny Laugh

)

Actually when I brought my sunny to meet the big wild world, he was already past his socialisation period. Then the dog owners I met said it didn't matter what age as long as I did socialise him.

One thing I read and learnt not to do is to comfort or show attention to my puppy when he run away in fear, or else he thinks it's alright to do that or even supposed to do that. I will just walk on, as if nothing happened. This include walking pass the barking dogs.

Then after I taught him to stay in public areas, I believe he is better as in won't run so much. Maybe he realised that all the people, bicycles, cars, motorbikes, toddlers, will pass by and do nothing to him Tongue

I have read that you can make alot of loud noises (dropping of pots and pans) while preparing the dog food. This will make him accustom with loud noises and think that after the loud noises, there's always good things (like eatting his meal)

As for socialising dogs, maybe you can find a very tame, calm dog of a helpful owner, put your puppy at a short distance and let them slooooooooooooooowly interact?

_______________________________________________
If you can't decide between a Shepherd, a Setter, or a Poodle, get them all....adopt a mutt! -ASPCA

(This post was edited by sun-arrow on Sep 5, 2003, 2:12 AM)

surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 5, 2003, 2:27 AM

Post #7 of 28 (2267 views)
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Re: [sun-arrow] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Everything you have written is absolutely correct ... and think you are doing real good with your dog ... Congrats ... Smile

... Especially agree with the part where you say - not to praise or encourage a dog showing timidity - but to ignore and pretend nothing unsual is happening ...

Yeaps ... although socialisation is particularly important when puppies are young ... there is really no end to socialisation ... and continued socialisation at any age is beneficial to all dogs ...

Your wrote: " ... As for socialising dogs, maybe you can find a very tame, calm dog of a helpful owner, put your puppy at a short distance and let them slooooooooooooooowly interact? ..."

The method you describe above is particularly good with dogs who have "poor communication skills" .

Sometimes when bad or irresponsible breeders sell puppies too young - the puppies never get a chance to learn now to properly speak and understand dog language from their mother ... And these dogs have problems communicating and socialising with other dogs.

Dogs have a fairly complicated system of signals using different kinds of barks, their eyes, mouth, tail and body movements to speak with each other ... to show friendship, invitate to play or to just say - keep away! ...

The inexperienced dog will have "loud or crude" signals ... the more experienced dogs will be able to communicate with "soft or more refined" signals ...

A dog having communication difficulties will benefit greatly from mixing around with an older & calm dog ... the older dog will teach the younger dog ... what to do and how to communicate properly ...

Thanks Smile

kesuke
Doggyman

Sep 5, 2003, 9:45 AM

Post #8 of 28 (2256 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

how about dogs that are afraid of big objects? my dog runs away when i open the umbrella..what to do???? Crazy

Sorely missed and always remembered - Beloved Billy
Penang lang? Click here!!

icezcream
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 5, 2003, 10:09 AM

Post #9 of 28 (2253 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi surchinmy

"You have done very well to identify the times when the puppy is frightened ... The examples you have listed suggest that the puppy may have been attacked by older dogs and is frightened of people (or perhaps even men) � overpunished"

my 1 1/2 years old pommy mix was attacked by a bigger dog when she was younger...now whenever i walk her,she would bark at bigger dogs or attempt to bite them...however,she would ignore smaller dogs(around her size)...how can i help her to get over it??

another thing,she tends to be quite shy whenever someone try to approach her and would hide behind my legs..she wasn't like this when she was still a pup coz i've been bringing her out to socialise...what could be the problem??

-= There are no bad breeds, just bad breeding=-

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surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 5, 2003, 6:59 PM

Post #10 of 28 (2247 views)
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Re: [kesuke] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Umbrellas? ... Smile

...

Use same same method that sun-arrow suggests ... it essentially a gradual step by step process of getting your dog used to the object the dog is afraid of ... slow-slow 'cos you don't want to accidently frighten your dog even more ...

For example: Usually the dog only gets frightened when you "open" the umbrella - many doggies find the noise and sudden opening & increase in intimidating ... (*gosh* this sounds quite terrible ... LOL Crazy

)

(a) Have treats ready ... and allow the doggie to play with the umbrella (when it is closed) ... or make the umbrella (closed) a part of your play ... (but don't let the doggie bite or chew umbrella ... that might become a bad habit Smile

) ... everytime the doggie is fine and happy with umbrella - praise & treat ...

Don't play too much ... make play with umbrella a treat in itself ... make it special special for the doggie... until she actually looks forward to playing with umbrella ...

(b) Then over time as dog gets used to umbrella closed ... slowly open the umbrella little by little ... again using the umbrella as part of play ... and using same method above ... treat & praise ...

With luck & perseverance - your dog will become used and less afraid of this strange object that opens and closes ...

It's very much like socialisation with people and other dogs ... a gradual acclimatisation is usually the solution ...

Cheers

(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 5, 2003, 7:50 PM)

surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 5, 2003, 7:36 PM

Post #11 of 28 (2244 views)
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Re: [icezcream] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

... Hi

...

Following sun-arrows suggestions would be good way to start ...

Just continue socialisation ... between your doggie and people ... take her along when you visit your friends and when your friends visit you - get the doggie involved ... give your friends little treats for your doggie ... (but remember to first explain your house rules for treating your dog ... eg: like doggie must sit first before getting treat and such like ... don't want your friends "kaputing" all your training ... Tongue

) ...

Socialisation is a continual process, don't stop ...

As for socialising with bigger dogs ... again sun-arrow's suggestion is good ... you will need to ask your friends with good, steady, calm (non-aggressive) dogs to help ... and get your doggie to slowly understand that not all bigger dogs are going to be aggressive to her ...

Caution: But of course, you must select the bigger dogs very carefully ... the bigger dogs must themselves be very steady and calm ... And to successfully carry out this type of "dog socialisation" ... you too will have to learn some dog language and signals ... so that you will know when you have to step in and difuse any potentially harmful situation before it even starts ... but this is kinda hard to explain over intenet ...

So, if you wish to try this - then have someone who knows dogs well to stand by and give you a hand ... Smile

...

Cheers

sun-arrow
Member

Sep 5, 2003, 11:32 PM

Post #12 of 28 (2233 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

You are making me blush!! Blush

I am lucky to have friendly dog owners living in the neighborhood :) Then one with the tame, calm GR is a hobby trainer, very helpful Sly

You are very pro!! Put in the theories hehe Sly

. I read your posts, are you a trainer or something?

_______________________________________________
If you can't decide between a Shepherd, a Setter, or a Poodle, get them all....adopt a mutt! -ASPCA

surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 6, 2003, 12:17 AM

Post #13 of 28 (2230 views)
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Re: [sun-arrow] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello ...

...

Am glad to hear that you have helpful dog owners around you ... that is always good, but then all the advice in the world is of no use - unless the person receiving the advice is also listening and prepared to work with the dog ... and that you have done ... so all credit to you ... Smile

Am I a trainer? ... well, only in so far as I have been well very trained by our doggies ... *lol* ... But otherwise, not a trainer - just someone who enjoys dogs ...

kesuke
Doggyman

Sep 6, 2003, 6:09 PM

Post #14 of 28 (2218 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

thank you thank you... Smile

will try out what you have said..hopefully he won't runs away again lah..
mostly that happens on rainy days coz rain = need umbrella and when he sees us with an umbrella he'd rather stand in the rain than come anywhere near the 'big round thing'... Crazy

and getting himself all soak up.....haiiiii....
hopefully things will improve when i try your method... Smile

Sorely missed and always remembered - Beloved Billy
Penang lang? Click here!!

sun-arrow
Member

Sep 6, 2003, 9:54 PM

Post #15 of 28 (2215 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Am I a trainer? ... well, only in so far as I have been well very trained by our doggies ... *lol* ... But otherwise, not a trainer - just someone who enjoys dogs ...

Hehe, ain't we all been trained by dogs Wink

Tried out your suggest on umbrella. Very funny to see sunny jumped at the sight and sound of umbrella opening Laugh

After 20-odd times of opening and closing, and also letting him investigate/smell what the hell that thing is, he stopped jumping.

_______________________________________________
If you can't decide between a Shepherd, a Setter, or a Poodle, get them all....adopt a mutt! -ASPCA

surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 7, 2003, 1:46 AM

Post #16 of 28 (2209 views)
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Re: [sun-arrow] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

...

... sounds like you guys had fun ... Smile

surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 7, 2003, 1:52 AM

Post #17 of 28 (2209 views)
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Re: [kesuke] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

... will keep fingers crossed for you and the doggie ...
Cheers

shyeow2
Canine Addict

Sep 8, 2003, 9:53 PM

Post #18 of 28 (2196 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Dear Surchinmy,

Thanks for all the comments. I had tried some of those ideas and it works well on him.

After weeks I guess he was timid coz of too young? The only reason I guess cause him timid was my the other dog always step / play too rough with him. Now, he was not scare of balloons / strangers / cars & bike anymore. Even dare to eat / drink my the other dog bowl of food / water.

Now I m worry he will pick up the aggressive bad habit from the elder dog. Coz my elder dog last time when just join in the family also very timid. Now she always though she is a male rotweilla guard dog. Err.. am I out of topic already..?
Frown

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kesuke
Doggyman

Sep 8, 2003, 11:32 PM

Post #19 of 28 (2193 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

thank you thank you.. Smile

Sorely missed and always remembered - Beloved Billy
Penang lang? Click here!!

surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 9, 2003, 2:02 AM

Post #20 of 28 (2191 views)
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Re: [shyeow2] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Very good to hear that you are making progress with the puppy ... Well done Smile

Yes ... sometimes when older dogs are aggressive or bully the younger pup ... the younger pup has no choice but to protect itself ...

Just little cautions ...

(a) Remember to constantly practise socialisation with the pup ... pups remain very senstitive and can get frightened easily ... so consistent socialisation with people and new things ... new environment ... is an important part of the puppy's development ... as mentioned before slowly slowly does it ... Smile

But puppies are also very resilient and will respond quickly to correct and proper training/socialisation ... get to know your baby and learn to communicate with it ...

(b) As for concern that the pup may pick up aggressive tendencies from older dog ... Do check out the other threads & postings on aggresive tendencies.

Remember that when introducing a new dog into a home with existing dog or dogs ... there will be occassions when the doggies have to sort out their differences and set the "pecking order" of each dog within the pack (as in which dog is No:1 and which dog is No:2 etc) ... in some ways you have to let this happen or the doggies will not settle down as a pack ... and an unstable pack can bring its own problems ...

The important thing is (while the dogs are allowed some latitude to sort our their own pecking order within the pack) this does not mean that any of the doggies are allowed to be aggressive to you or your family members! ...

Maybe you can try this ...

Feed your puppy yourself and be close by when feeding. Then practice gently taking food away - if puppy allows you to take food away and does not growl - praise like crazy and immediately give a special treat and give food back ... do this several times during a meal ... This will establish your status with the pup ... and generally, dogs who are not food possessive will also have a more gentle and stable temperament ...

If the pup growls at you ... say puppy's name and go "NOOOOOOO" ... in a low tone like a growl ... wait until the puppy settles down ... then give the food back but no treat ... repeat the exercise ...

The idea is for you to get the puppy to TRUST you and to get used to you handling its food ... Thus, you must be calm and do not be impatient (other than your low growl, do not otherwise punish the puppy) during this exercise ... you are trying to build respect & trust between you and the puppy ... not fear ... Immediately use plenty of praise when puppy behaves.

(IMPORTANT: But unless you are very confident, experienced and know what to do ... DO NOT TRY THIS WITH ADULT DOG that already has a food possessiveness habit ... or you may get bitten)

Cheers

(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 9, 2003, 2:03 AM)

shyeow2
Canine Addict

Oct 3, 2003, 12:11 AM

Post #21 of 28 (2149 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for the ideas! Smile

reply on :-

a) I bring them out twice a day ( jogging, playing the mud, climb mountain or whatever) and I try to social him with more dogs and humans eg. join the Responsible Dog Owner Day organize here. He seems very timid during that day, however he gets used to it slowly and now he is getting better...

(He was so timid during the recall game : when others dogs run crazy to their owner, he RUN TO OTHER SIDE HIDE! I am so pai sei of him, haha Laugh

)

b) Only my elder dog will aggressive to food, but now they both can eat together, I am just on the way trainning the cats eat together with these 2 fellows too..

But I still dont understand : is it possible a female be the pack leader? Because Jojo always control Russel, and she likes to hold his leash to walk around?! Crazy

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surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Oct 3, 2003, 1:58 AM

Post #22 of 28 (2146 views)
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Re: [shyeow2] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

You asked: "... is it possible a female be the pack leader? Because Jojo always control Russel, and she likes to hold his leash to walk around ..."

Yes, it is entirely possible for a female to be pack leader ... *smile*... Sometimes, the male has apparent control, yet real authority lies with a female in the pack ... *smile* ... sounds familiar neh?

But please be aware that:

*** The hierarchy structure in a pack is mobile ... For example: a female on heat may take over position as pack leader ... and surrender the position at the end of her heat.

*** The signs indentifying a pack leader can also be very subtle. A dog that barks and growls may seem like the leader, while the true pack leader is happily sitting in the corner chewing his toy.

Without observing your dogs, it is not possible to say whether holding the leash is indication that JoJo is pack leader. It could be that JoJo just likes the taste ... Smile

Cheers

shyeow2
Canine Addict

Oct 13, 2003, 5:37 PM

Post #23 of 28 (2128 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

thanks for all th eideas and commands..

i m still trying to bring him out and social more often. he is getting better, some how still he will only calm down after 10--15 mins whenever out and meet others dog.
Frown

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surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Oct 13, 2003, 9:31 PM

Post #24 of 28 (2125 views)
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Re: [shyeow2] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi ...

Glad all is progressing well ... Plenty of socialisation is good ... And not to worry about doggie being excited for first 15 minutes or so ... that is normal and your doggie is still young ... and with more socialisation with other dogs - your dog will learn good doggie language ...

Better for doggie to be excited ... than timid or afraid ...

Cheers Laugh

Amanda85
Doggyman

Nov 4, 2003, 5:34 PM

Post #25 of 28 (2093 views)
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Re: [shyeow2] Timid! Any Ideas? [In reply to]	Can't Post

my pup is also timid when he was small. (3 months old)

i remember once i bring her out to walk unleash at taman jaya near my house for the 2nd time. while we reach the entrance, a dog in a house bark at her, she quickly run back to my house. and it quite far away, glad that she knew the way home.

Pacco de Mongrel
~ Come and join us for a doggie jungle trekking @ Bukit Gasing every Saturday morning ~

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