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Home: Behavioral Problems: Behavioural Issues - General:
Jealous?







Dar
Dog Kichi


May 3, 2002, 4:16 PM

Post #1 of 7 (2680 views)
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Jealous? Can't Post

  

Hello there,

After keeping Izac for 13 months I still have not got to control his barking habit. Plese give some time to share the scenario.

Izac doesn’t simple bark at people who walk by outside the house but he does bark when someone is at the gate or VERY near to the house, I understand he is doing his job and he does it very – very well I am proud of it.

He does bark when he sees a cat or dog near the house sometimes even at birds. OK that is his job, fine.

But he barks like mad when we get near Newton (our other dog who has been with us for 3 yrs) I have marah him, even had hardcore action (pukullah) but he never gives up. I have talked to some people with rotii and they told me it is normal rottis are jealous of other dogs: Is it true? Some say rotti puppies must be socialize with other dogs from a young age….. well Izac has been with Newton since he was 2 months till today .

How can I stop this habit? I have search the forum for barking and did not find what I want so if there is a topic related to my problem please give me a tip. Thank you.

Dar


leopui
K9 Maniac

May 3, 2002, 8:17 PM

Post #2 of 7 (2674 views)
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Re: [Dar] Jealous? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not a professional trainer but would like to share how I'd approach the problem if it were my dog (Izac).

First, I will look for a collar such as a prong or a Gentle Leader. I will read about them, get opinions on each product, before making a choice on what will work best based on my character, strength, size of the dog, etc. Next, I will have to walk Izac separately from the other dogs. The other dogs probably excite him to act this way and obviously is starting to produce an undesirable behavior to my other dog. In training, I would like some control and 2 large dogs lunging could get me off-balance. I would also keep him close to me with a short leash.

If out on a walk, and I spy another dog coming up. I'll say "no" very sternly when he barks or lunges at the other dog. But will allow him to meet the stranger when he is quiet and will praise him for it. Eventually, he will realize that he can and will touch noses even if he doesn't bark. A friend who has an experienced and well socialized dog can help you with this. As it progresses, a subtle "shhh-shhh" or "ah-ah", before he even starts to bark, will prevent him from going full blast. Only when he can meet other dogs without lunging and barking will he be accompanied by another dog.


Read you dog's body language whenever he sees other dogs. You didn't mentioned that whether his hairs at the back of his neck stands up, check if there is then that is a sign of aggression or fear on the part of your dog. When did he started displaying this kind of behaviour? If his actions are caused by fear, he must have had some bad experience(s) with other dogs.

Gradually introduce him to dogs, start with the ones he familiar with (if there are any). Praise him when he behaves with them. In my dog's case, whenever he sees a dog that he doesn't like, he'd bend low as if crawling, hairs at the back of the neck would stand, and then he'd make his ambush!... Sort of like a lioness hiding and ambushing a prey. Read you dog's reaction and pop her lead and strenly say "NO"...

Be very patient, he might need sometime to trust or be comfortable near other dogs.

On the other side of point of view, most likely, your dog has weak nerves that's why he is barking at other dogs. You may think that the dog is really aggressive, but try to get them near the other dogs and you'll see that the other dogs will be the ones biting.

Anyway, I have rely the message to my friend (
Fred, an International Rottweiler Judge cum breed warrant) and asked him about his opponion, below is his reply by the way.

Right now, I can think of two ways to solve the problem. Let’s go with the gentler method first; and I will address you like I was talking to your friend, to make it easier. Try clicker training and get Izac to understand that certain behaviors are rewarded. I don’t know if you are familiar with clicker training; but I’ll go ahead and explain what to do.

First, condition your dog to respond to the clicker sound by clicking a behavior. If
Izac already understands the sit command, then command him to sit and once he does, click, then treat (reward of hotdog, liver treats or anything that Izac likes). Do these a few times to make him understand that there’s a treat coming after the click. Then teach him to bark on command. Once he understands the command that BARK is the behavior or sound he makes (he just learned the human English term or word for barking), you can then start teaching him NO BARK, or QUIET, or SHSHSH (my preference because the dog will easily hear this cue even with his noisy barking). Make sure your timing is right in clicking the right behavior. When you give the SHSHSH command and he shuts up for one second, click and treat. Then lengthen the time of quiet behavior before the click and treat.

The object of this exercise is to elicit the behavior (barking), then extinguish it (no bark). You also make the dog understand the human terms for the two behaviors (bark and quiet). Once you’re sure
Izac understands the commands, take him out solo for a walk and see if he will follow the SHSHSH command with distractions (other dogs).

Izac
’s behavior may be caused by either true dog aggression or fearful of the other dog, so he tries to drive it away through intimidation (barking and lunging). If the above suggestion doesn’t work, here’s a more forceful one.

Put him on a pinch (or prong) collar. Make sure it’s properly fitted high up on the neck, near the ears. Teach him the "WATCH ME" command (he should look at your eyes or face when you give the command). If he looks at you on command, praise him; if not, give the collar a snappy pop with the leash. It’s easier to teach this command when the dog is on a sit position. Once he understands the command, take him out for a walk and proof him with distractions. Any disobedience (not looking at you on command) is corrected with a pop on the leash.

Every time you see a dog coming your way, command
Izac to watch you. If he’s not looking at the dog, then he’s not trying to intimidate the dog by staring, barking and lunging. You’re also communicating to him that you’re in control of the situation and he has nothing to fear. You established your Alpha position by telling him what to do (he trusts you as the leader so he doesn’t have to worry). And, if he’s naturally dog aggressive, you immediately extinguished the dog-aggressive behavior before he went into a frenzied barking and lunging.

By the way, on behavior like this, you have to correct or extinguish it before it happens or gets into overdrive. You immediately correct him for even thinking about getting aggressive. Once the barking and lunging starts, it would be more difficult to correct it.

Hope this helps!


LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!


joonkeet
Member

May 3, 2002, 9:03 PM

Post #3 of 7 (2667 views)
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Re: [Dar] Jealous? [In reply to] Can't Post

If we are talking about collars here, I came across a forum where they are talking about dogs barking incessant - nusiancely. This person who replied to a post actually explain about a collar that can train the dog.

Below was the reply from that person:
"I'm all about using no-bark collars (and not the citronella kind) ... incessant - nusiance type barking is a problem. The bark collars issue an electronic correction that teaches them that barking is not warranted."

Just wondering whether do we have it here in malaysia?

Regards
Joseph

Consult a vet. Be kind to pet


Dar
Dog Kichi


May 3, 2002, 9:34 PM

Post #4 of 7 (2666 views)
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Re: [leopui] Jealous? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Leopui,

I was waiting (hoping) you would reply about this problem.Thanks

Let me add a little (think I missed part of my story) Izac does not bark at dogs during the walks, there were sometimes where a few dogs would run towards us (Izac and me) at 1st I was shaking but not now as when this happens (dogs coming at us) Izac just stands with his head high and look at them he will not move even when pulled so I let him have a nice look and when the dogs stop or turn away Izac walks away with me. He only barks at Newton my 1st dog in the house when we go near Newton or to take Newton out for walks. I let them play around together and they do but if at this time you go near Newton or Newton comes near you mortal combat starts and Newton will end up running he even shee shee at times. There were times when I correct Newton for something and izac happen to be around ...then walah....dog fight other than that Izac is find with Newton, he doesn't take is food coz at times had to say NO! but Newton can not go near Izac's bowl, toys and so on....

Leopui, at 5.30am I take Newton out and at this hour Izac barks....Oh god.... lucky the people around me have dogs too....ah when their dogs bark Izac stands up, looks around or even walks up to the gate and looks out then he is back to his place as if nothing happen but Newton will bark along with other dogs and had to say No then he stops. ayo going to go madlah...

Dar


leopui
K9 Maniac

May 4, 2002, 1:14 AM

Post #5 of 7 (2659 views)
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Re: [Dar] Jealous? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dogs can be controlling in many different ways. They will always take as much as they can get and, if you don't set some limits, problems develop. Examples of ways dogs can control (and dominate) their owners include barking demandingly, disobeying commands, and requiring your constant attention.

In order to be "leader of your pack," you must be a fair, benevolent, but firm leader. When the dog tests your authority (which your Izac, in my oponion is apt to do in varying degrees), you must respond. A lack of response on your part will be interpreted as permission to continue by your dog (for example, to continue chewing the rug).


I would strongly suggest you to start practicing obedience every day and being very consistent with some house rules. Among other things, I would recommend to separate the two dogs into two area. You need to calmly and patiently establish that you are in charge and as top dog (and payer of all the dog bills).


While you may like to tell me more detail ... such like
  • who (Izac or Newton) get to go out and walk with you first?
  • What is your feeding procedure ... meaning who do you feed first?
  • Can you "recognizied" Izac's barking like?
  • What is his reaction after you "pop" him? Eye on you or still looking at Newton and continue his barking?
  • What is his body language like ... just refer to my previous post for guideline.


Meanwhile, have you ever thought of doing a "heart to heart" communication with him? Spend about 10 to 15 minutes daily and talk while you can run or stroking your hand over him. You may e-mail me private for more information on this issue.


By the way, try to have the assistance from your wife, get her to bring Newton out for a morning walk while you stay just with in the sight of your Izac and let see what is happening next.




LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!


Dar
Dog Kichi


May 4, 2002, 7:26 PM

Post #6 of 7 (2649 views)
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Re: [leopui] Jealous? [In reply to] Can't Post

 Yes , we agree with you Leopui I always though Izac will try to control me but I didn’t see it happening in front of me. Izac disobeys commands at times, and requires constant attention.
( when I am home he sometimes barks ; the tone as if he is calling you and he will be looking at the door, if I don’t go out then he will start to make the Madweeeee weeeeeeMad sound until one of us ask him to shut up! My wife said if I am not at home he does nothing of these. There were 2 incidents where I think Izac tried to challenge me (my opinion) once he refuse to let go of the ball when my son wanted to take it from him so I scolded and gave the down command which he obeyed, I took the ball away and turned around Izac jumped on me growing. He was about 9 months then. The 2nd time, we wanted to put Izac back in his “cage” so I told him to go in (he does know this command) but this time he was walking around as if nothing happen so I caught him by the collar and asked him to sit then stay, and turn to look at my wife and … he jumped on me growing… I think he is challenging because I saw in TV (earthvision) where a bear being trained doing these to the trainer but I don’t know if it is the same with dogs.

As for the barking we tried out as suggest in the above post (not all lah) using the choke chain think it will work. This morning I took Newton out and my wife was with Izac when he “wanted to” bark she said NO and he didn’t bark but was not happy at all, he was walking up and down with his head up and his killer look at Newton his front legs were moving just like a horse but he did not jump either.

For the details you asked;
  1. Izac goes out first.
  2. Before this we feed Izac first but now a days we take the 2 bowls out the same time and put the food in front of them the same time (my sons do that, we just watch)
  3. Yes, I now when he is barking to call me, at Newton or when someone is around
  4. Reaction after “pop” – he will stop barking look at me , a few seconds later he will look at Newton again.
  5. Body Language – head up alert, ears what you say ah.. forwarded , expand chest, front legs straight, back legs bended a little, no hair raised on the back.


Heart to heart communication- The Max thing – No I don’t think I can say I do, sometimeslah I sit with him or he sits with me ? You see Izac sits or lay down where I sit even if I change the place he gets up comes and sit with me. I do stroke him from time to time and talk during our walks or run may be 1 or 2 weekslah.

Will email you . Thanks

Dar


leopui
K9 Maniac

May 4, 2002, 10:44 PM

Post #7 of 7 (2644 views)
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Re: [Dar] Jealous? [In reply to] Can't Post

At least that is a positive sign when you mentioned ... I took Newton out and my wife was with Izac when he “wanted to” bark she said NO and he didn’t bark but was not happy at all ... get your wife to praise him A LOT when is not doing the barking, then you can likewise follow the procedure too after your wife.

I don't think i can provide you with additional assistance, except believing still Obedience trained would help. Follow the link and find out more on the barkings.

Barking: A Common Behavior Problem



LEO PUI
Get REAL, Train REAL & Be REAL! Do RIGHT and FEAR No One!

 
 




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