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2 cents of breeding your dog (experience)

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jack_tan
Novice

Oct 1, 2007, 10:31 PM

Post #1 of 22 (2511 views)
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2 cents of breeding your dog (experience)	Can't Post

Just to express my frustration and hope this be a lesson to all:

It was about a year ago when Lucky (my son) met Ally (the other half) at a dog gathering in Central Park. Ally's owner, Alicia (19yo) and mum approached me and asked if we wanted to breed our GR. Actually I was looking for another dog already so when the idea presented itself, I was quite excited since the other dog would be Lucky's son! Smile

So we exchanged contact number and waited for around 6 months for Ally to be ready. Ally was brought to my home for 3 days and let nature take its course, which was successful and I was proud of Lucky being his 1st time and all.

We were excited and waited for around 60 days and was excited to receive a call from Alicia that Ally was going into labour. Shocked

The whole process took 14hrs and 5 healthy puppies were born, 2 males and 3 females. 2 of the females even have a small white patch of hair on the forehead just like the father Wink

. I went to see them pups after the 1st week when they were still blind and deaf. Being a nice guy, I also brought along 10 cans of Pedigree to help Ally eat better. So cute

. BTW, the deal was not monetary but I was allowed to have a male pup, which was my first intention. There were 2 male dogs, one being fairer and the other being darker. I was immediately drawn by the darker one as that resembled Lucky the most. Alicia asked me which one I "preferred" and I pointed to the darker one saying that this resembles Lucky the most. A week later she asked me what I would like to name my pup, and I said Mighty Luckally. Cool

At the 3rd week, Alicia and family had to go for an outing in East Malaysia and had asked me to help take care of Ally and the pups. I agreed to take care of them eventhough my wedding was on the same weekend. Yes, my wedding at the bride's hometown about 2 hrs away from KL. Taking care of them for a few days is fine and I also get to spend time with Mighty. So that week my whole family was there and we were happy to have spent time with all the pups. Eventually the day came a few days later when Alicia came back to take the pups. Surprisingly, she asked me which pup I liked and I said the darker one. (1st indication of problem but she didn't reply Unsure

).

During the 5th week, after my wedding in KL, my wife took the whole week off and I asked Alicia if I could take the pups for the weekend again to spend some time with the pups and Ally again. Reluctantly they agreed and we took them in for 1 night. Even that 1 night was precious. I wanted to take Mighty then but they said they still need to distemper and microchip them before they can release the pups. Laugh

ok... very excited but have to be patient.

During the end of the 6th week, the microchip was till not done but I still made by way to see the pups (yup, I was also emotionally attached to them). This time again Alicia asked me," Which pup do you prefer?". I told her my preference again and then she said that her mom also likes that one. Shocked

Confused... The father came out and told me that they have to have a family discussion first as they have not even decided if they wanted to take a male or female. Reason: They would like a male but that would mean spaying Ally (incase of incest) or they would take a female. I was unhappy Frown

when i left that house but I respected them saying they would like to have a discussion first. I got a call later that week from the mother confronting the issue. She is going to get the microchipped and would like to sort out the matter first. Of course I told her my preference again base on:

I chose my pup during the early stages.
I was given a choice first but if they would have told me which one they liked, I would have respected their decision.
If they knew I wanted Mighty, why did they keep me in the dark for the past 7 weeks???

Her reply was :

They already chose Mighty when he was born. Alicia was suppose to liaise with me but she didn't.
They only asked for my preference but they did not agree to it.
She took care of them for the past 7 weeks and it is unfair that she couldn't chose the pup of her choice. (I thought that was part & parcel of your responsibility when you have decided to breed Ally)
The fairer one was already registered as Mighty and not the darker one (the plot thickens... )

Finally i confronted them again last Sunday to collect the puppy and we had quite a bad argument. I brought out my point, which in my opinion is all very valid, and they said that Alicia (their daughter!) should have told me in the first place which pup they liked. On why I was given first choice, they said that although Alicia gave me a choice, but it was not her dog to give. (If you read this sentence properly, you will find that both statements are contradicting Sly

). And finally it came out " This is non-negotiable!" while Alicia keeps saying that she's a teenager and its hard for her to do anything. (Already legible for a driving license... Shocked

)

I realized that they were not going to be reasonable so I said I wanted a compensation. They asked me what? I said I want 2 dogs now! (Well, since they can be unreasonable, I would like to see their reactions to this and how much they would agree that they were wrong)... Of course they said NO! But they did compansate by giving my friend a RM300 discount in getting one of Lucky's seeds.

In concusion, it was an unpleasant evening Frown

. But no matter which Lucky seed I got, I would still love him as much as the rest. Just didn't like the feeling of being cheated

. Not honoring a deal!

So I would suggest for those who would like to breed your dog, make sure everything is made clear before you plunge in as the inability to do so would mean you being never able to see face to face again (in my case, I guess I will never be able to see Ally again and we will miss her

)

PS: The mom sms me later asking for the registration cost (RM 97). I should have billed her for the 10 cans of pedigree I bought and also the 4 nights when I took care of Ally and pups while they were out to East Malaysia. But hey, would I stoop so low?

(This post was edited by jack_tan on Oct 1, 2007, 10:58 PM)

min_puzzle
Enthusiast

Oct 2, 2007, 5:21 PM

Post #2 of 22 (2478 views)
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Re: [jack_tan] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Whoa~ that girl and her mother is just soo unreasonable. Are they like trying to con u or sumthing? U must be furious that sumthing like that happen 1 week after ur wedding. And u were very clever to ask 2 pups frm them. Let them noe that u can be as unresonable as them. Are they planning to sell Lucky's pups??

Have u took ur pup home yet and wich 1 did u take in the end?

jack_tan
Novice

Oct 2, 2007, 7:29 PM

Post #3 of 22 (2470 views)
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Re: [min_puzzle] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

You can be the judge if they are trying to con me or not Unsure

and thanks for seeing things from my point of view.

When I went there that night, they already sold one of the female pups. I brought a friend there, who was also interested in one of them, and he bought another pup (so at least my pup and his pup, siblings, will still be seeing each other often). So when I left, there was only 2 pups left, the darker male which they MIGHT not sell and also another female pup which they plan to sell. So all in all, they plan to keep only the male pup (that's where all the controversy started). But who knows?

A very sad thing was Ally lost 3 of her kids that night. She was very, very unhappy and she looked like she was crying

. She wanted to follow me back (actually she likes to go for car rides) but I knew she was never going to follow me back anymore and probably she will never see her son and daughters again. Very, very sad ending

which could have been prevented as we had planned to bring back her pups to see her once in a while so that she knows we did not abandon her. But after this ordeal, I don't think I will have the heart to ga back there again as much as I would like to. Frown

As for me, I tooked the fairer one home which I will still call little Mighty and will still love and care for like it was any of them. Wink

chrisong
Doggyman

Oct 3, 2007, 5:36 AM

Post #4 of 22 (2438 views)
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Re: [jack_tan] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Maybe is best you can post the dog owner photos here so atleast no one get cons from them anymore. Where got ppl ask the male dog owner to paid the pup registration fees !!! This ppls are too much!!! Mad

Usually in any mating. Male dog owner is given the right to choose the pup first not the female dog owner.

If I were you, I demand $$$$ from them. The price of a 2 GR!!! LOL Tongue

steffy1811
K9 Kaki

Oct 3, 2007, 7:26 PM

Post #5 of 22 (2415 views)
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Re: [jack_tan] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

wahhhh ya lor ya lor.... if me ah, sure I demand already lor....... i'll blacklist them all over Klang Valley mann.....see how they gonna show their faces anywhere anymore. Hahahahaha oh yeah, i'm evil. Very boh kam puan mah....like that give ppl step all over. Pirate

Anyway thanks for sharing Jack. Teaching the rest of us to be careful.

LOL.... next time I know liao lor. Everything must be in Black and White. Male dog owner gets FIRST choice. Male dog owner dont have to pay registration fees. And most importantly, if there is any breach in any of the conditions, Female Dog Owner shall compensate Male Dog Owner Xtime the market value of puppies with whatever else expenditure that has been spent during the whole pregancy period or Male Dog Owner entitled to 2/5 puppies at hand. Male dog owner not responsible for all transactions made without its prior notice. Tongue

Hahahah got

ppl ask bout Gizmo liao lor....they ask my BF, he says not his dog. Ask me, I say not my dog. So cannot decide. Hahahahahahaah Tongue

Crazy lah.....Gizmo not even 1 year old mann..... only exactly 8months old yesterday. Already asking for booking.

*Rascal's Philosophy "Will give the world up for a good nap"
Gizmo's Philosophy "Mine Mine Mine. All is MINE. Sharing is caring..? Whats that?"

jack_tan
Novice

Oct 3, 2007, 8:22 PM

Post #6 of 22 (2406 views)
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Re: [chrisong] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Chris,

Thanks for the suggestion but I don't have the dog owner's pictures. I also find it ridiculous when they ask me to pay for the registration fees and somehow they think," I give you one dog it is good enough. Don't ask for too much!!!". Unfortunately my wife and I are are not experienced stud service providers Smile

so we don't know the exact rules. What to do? They looked like very decent people when I met them Frown

.

I didn't demand for money because I wasn't in for the money in the first place. What I wanted was a Lucky seed where Lucky could enjoy his father hood Cool

. Like I said, I did ask them to compensate me with another female GR but they said I was being ridiculous and the only compensation they gave me (before they offer the discount for my friend's pup) was " AN APOLOGY FROM A MAN!!!" While the teenage daughter kept saying," I'm a teenager and I cannot handle this. I don't know how to tell you." You will actually see the ball being thrown at each other in the room Sly

. The "APOLOGY FROM A MAN" actually will be much appreciated if I was a MALE CHAUVINIST PIG!!!

Anyway like I said, they were just unreasonable people trying to make people understand their unreasonable reasons but I just don't know how they can live with themselves and how good an example has this been for the younger generation.

"REMEMBER ITS OK TO MAKE MISTAKES AS A TEENAGER! DON'T HAVE TO LIVE UP TO YOUR MISTAKES BECAUSE THE FATHER, WHO THINKS A SIMPLE APOLOGY WILL GET WORLD PEACE, WILL ALWAYS HELP YOU"

jack_tan
Novice

Oct 3, 2007, 8:26 PM

Post #7 of 22 (2403 views)
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Re: [steffy1811] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Steffy and always a pleasure for me to share. No point for people going through the same path like I did.

Your GIZMO look so cute so not surprising already got booking.

PS: I think you have potetial to be lawyer. Also 5 day job but they can charge up to RM 250 / hr for consultation. How I wish I did Law when I was in school Laugh

steffy1811
K9 Kaki

Oct 3, 2007, 9:19 PM

Post #8 of 22 (2396 views)
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Re: [jack_tan] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

The avatar is Rascal...older one. This picture is clearer. Smaller one is Gizmo before grooming.

Older one sudah potong lah....but still got ppl ask before. Petshop fellas asked somemore. I told them I cant proof his breed cos no cert. Adopted from cocker rescue centre in US. I cannot proof his lineage also they want. Until I say, neutered liao lor...then only stop.

Now gizmo pulak. Crazy

Gizmo is pure ACS as what MKA claims lah.....hahahahahah but jeez....8months old lah..never even crossed my mind to breed him. Aiyoo he don simply hump here and there i very happy already lor....somemore ask him to go and mate...what happens after mate one session liao, he come back and start humping everywhere, I mai headache! Crazy

hahahah looks like too late already. I already graduated with a BSc. hahah got consider before to go back to law school. Tongue

yea lor.... 5 day work week.... 250/hr...yumyum....then if win case, X% cut somemore. Especially property cases....wahhh take 1% also very good liao lor..... Hahahahahah

*Rascal's Philosophy "Will give the world up for a good nap"
Gizmo's Philosophy "Mine Mine Mine. All is MINE. Sharing is caring..? Whats that?"

chrisong
Doggyman

Oct 4, 2007, 5:01 AM

Post #9 of 22 (2375 views)
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Re: [jack_tan] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

For the potential stud dog owners out there. This is the standard procedure being practise now.

As a male stud dog owner you have the right:-

1.) To choose the puppy first. Even if the female only gave birth to (1) pup, the female owner must gave the pup to you.

2.) No need to paid a single cents in all the expenses being paid to raise up the pup thats include 1st vaccination & MKA registration.

steffy1811
K9 Kaki

Oct 4, 2007, 7:10 PM

Post #10 of 22 (2359 views)
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Re: [chrisong] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

means female owner covers all ah?

So if female dog gives birth to only 1, that means pup legally belongs to papa dog lah...then female dog gets nothing?

Hmm must have written agreement in black and white one or not? Wink

*Rascal's Philosophy "Will give the world up for a good nap"
Gizmo's Philosophy "Mine Mine Mine. All is MINE. Sharing is caring..? Whats that?"

chrisong
Doggyman

Oct 5, 2007, 12:15 AM

Post #11 of 22 (2332 views)
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Re: [steffy1811] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Female owner cover everything!!!

If only 1 pup and the male dog owner want the pup. Female dog owner get nothing!!!

Usually no need black & white. Standard practise. If got, better lah.

(This post was edited by chrisong on Oct 5, 2007, 12:17 AM)

steffy1811
K9 Kaki

Oct 5, 2007, 12:54 AM

Post #12 of 22 (2322 views)
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Re: [chrisong] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

hmmmmmm how come like that ah.....lol sorry lah....but curious lah.... like that it seems the female owner mai on the disadvanataged end? Hahahaha.....i mean ok if got 3 pups, then male take 1 female get 2,ok fair lah....but if only 1, male take the pup and also don have to pay a single cent. Then female mai rugi lor... Wink

ok ok maybe i'm not seeing something here

hahahahahahahah maybe there is some fairness somewhere....

Then again, how often do dogs actually gives birth to ONE only? 1st litter always less one si boh? Then as more litters the female has, chances of getting more pups is higher?

hahaha Tongue

forgive me and my stupid theories. Hahahahahaha Tongue

but is there like a pie chart kinda thing going on. Like 2/5, 3/7, 5/9.....ok i'm just simply churning numbers....hahahahahaha but if got more than 5 pups then how? Let's say 2/5 works, does that mean male owner only get first choice ONE pup, the female choose another one, then only male get to choose again. Or first choice already male owner can choose both?

ok time to balikkkkkkkkkkk.......gonna take rascal to the groomer to go naked. Hahahaha yeah wanna cut off all feathering liao cos I cannot tahan Gizmo keep biting and matting him up! Tongue

*Rascal's Philosophy "Will give the world up for a good nap"
Gizmo's Philosophy "Mine Mine Mine. All is MINE. Sharing is caring..? Whats that?"

chrisong
Doggyman

Oct 5, 2007, 5:07 AM

Post #13 of 22 (2309 views)
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Re: [steffy1811] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

No matter how many pups the female dog gave birth. The male dog owner only can take 1 pup or.....

Female dog owner can also negotiate with the male dog owner not to choose pup by taking money (market price of 1 pup)-

Take pup or money this must be agree & decide by both dog owner before they start the mating.

(This post was edited by chrisong on Oct 5, 2007, 5:10 AM)

min_puzzle
Enthusiast

Oct 5, 2007, 6:05 AM

Post #14 of 22 (2304 views)
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Re: [jack_tan] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ur welcum~ I really felt kind of angry when i read that. I think they are trying to breed dogs but don't wanna buy another male GR. so they wait until they get a chance to breed their female GR n take the better male GR pup for future breeding. That's what i thnk they are trying to do.

They just wanna make money. Poor Ally, I fel sad for her that she has this kind of owners. Luckily Liyyle mighty Will get to see his sibling often. It's soo cute n happy to see Gr siblings grow big together. Really feels like human siblings growing up.

They are keeping the original Mighty?? Actually, at the first place u told the girl that u wanted the darker pup wich is Mighty right?? And she doesn't get it or what?? What's soo hard to understand about "I want that pup"?? Im a teenager too. And i even call up my pup's breeder to arrange thingz and get everything done on my own. She's already 19 for god's sake! Why can't she handle this?? Is not as if she's performing a surgery.

Im soo sorry to hear that Ally lost 3 of her pups!

Somehow i kinda have this feeling that Ally isn't really in good hands.I think those people aren't really dog lovers. Real dog lovers are not soo unreasonable! Poor Ally. I feel soo sad for her.

Can post some pics of Lucky n Mighty?? Would like to see both father n son!

jack_tan
Novice

Oct 6, 2007, 12:59 AM

Post #15 of 22 (2271 views)
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Re: [min_puzzle] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

min_puzzle, u r reading from my mind.

Actually I didn't go into details already you feel so angry Mad

. If I tell you in details, you will puke blood!!! I have actually indicated to them which pup I want for more than 4 times to both mom and daughter!!! I don't think they don't get it, they are just being ignorant and waited for 7 weeks to see which pup grows up stronger and better and give the weaker one away. I'm quite sure that if the fairer one grew up much stronger, they will happily give me the original Mighty. As for me, I picked the pup during the first week, which means I have no indication of which will grow stronger or better. My choice was base on how much he resembled Lucky's darker fur. Frown

. Its good to know that you are one teenager who wil live up to your words eventhough you have made a mistake. It will be a lesson in life and important for you in the future, but for her, she will never learn because her parents encourages her actions Pirate

and trust me when you say "she's 19 for god's sake" she will understand you perfectly! (goes to church every Sunday but no pun intended to other readers)

As for Ally,

she's been very thin after she give birth. When she gave birth, I noticed that she was so bony but they told me that this is normal after giving birth (maybe someone can share). But after 7 months, she was still bony. Sigh, don know if she's being fed well or not. And she also got rashes (quite bad) all over her body. However they do not want to give her medication yet because she is still feeding them milk. But after 7 weeks, with pups all grown, and the mother with rashes all over her body, I think it is very selfish of them lor. Chinese say, " oi chai em oi la" (after get son, don't want mother).

Regarding the rights of male dog owners, in my opinion, if the female so happen to give birth to only 1 pup, and I can see they take care of the pup, and they also ask me nicely... i might consider giving it up lar... give and take lor. I'm very unreasonable man and my priority is for the hapiness and welfare of the puppies and I believe you will all agree with me Wink

. But that is just my point of view and I don't speak for everyone.

I do have Lucky, Mighty and Ally's photos but I do not know how to post it here. Anyone can give me advise?

Old Man
Dog Kichi

Oct 6, 2007, 3:45 AM

Post #16 of 22 (2263 views)
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Re: [steffy1811] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

usual practice at north and thailand is; give birth to 4 pups, male owner take 1, 5 pups above male owner take 2 pups. in the practice of selecting the pups, is up to both owner. some will stated the oral agreement before the female give birth, example; it could be on seeing and makes selection or both owner agreed by letting the male owner pick the numbers before the pups came out. and if the pup selected cannot make it then the male owner cannot make any complain.
A Old Man That Always Look Young and His Young But Old looking Pitbull

min_puzzle
Enthusiast

Oct 6, 2007, 7:47 AM

Post #17 of 22 (2255 views)
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Re: [jack_tan] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Haha, really? Btw, im min..puzzle is my puppy.

That's not even the whole story yet?? Maybe u should try telling me the whole story..won't mind puking some blood for the sake of a good real story. I'll gain some experience frm ur story n hopefully next time i won't fall into this trap too.

Maybe, both mother and daughter just can't seem to understand simple english or even human body language. Im sure atleast pointed once or picked up the pup u want. Typical chinese bad attitude lar (not offending anyone,im chinese too), keep the best for themselves. Yea, i gotta take resposibility for everything i do, when my pup arrives, im gonna take care of her all by myself, i don't think im gonna get any help frm my parents. but i can learn alot frm there unlike that girl. I think she's the kind of dog owner where she'll just play with Ally n never groom her or clean her up.

Poor Ally, i wish her all the best here. After 7 mnths still that thin?? I think she's not fed well. Btw, what do they know about Grs giving birth??

Hmm..im feeling sumthing suspicious here. Ppl like that aren't dog lovers, so they won't go online to chek out infos on Grs giving birth n after birth.

Yalor, if they want the darker pup, should've told u the 1st time. Maybe u still won't be sooo furious.

Ermm..u can post it under me n my dogs. Cz there's a place for u to attach pics there. They dont have it under the section. Do post pics of them, i really wanna see a father n son GR. Thnx!

jack_tan
Novice

Oct 8, 2007, 9:15 PM

Post #18 of 22 (2173 views)
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Re: [min_puzzle] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Min and,

Well, actually I don't want to continue talking about them already... i also puking blood and now need to get supply from blood bank Laugh

. Actually now I'd rather spend more of my time taking care of Mighty and Lucky. But if you want more details, you can give me your email or we can meet at one of the trekking days in Gasing Hill (but you must let me know when you go cause sometimes I oversleep Cool

... okok... most of the time)

Quote

Poor Ally, i wish her all the best here. After 7 mnths still that thin??

Actually 7 weeks (pardon my mistake for not checking properly Wink

. Here are the links to some of the pictures of Lucky, Mighty and also Ally. http://i212.photobucket.com/...jacktts/DSC03821.jpg http://i212.photobucket.com/...jacktts/DSC00285.jpg http://i212.photobucket.com/...jacktts/DSC00287.jpg http://i212.photobucket.com/...jacktts/DSC00278.jpg http://i212.photobucket.com/...cktts/Photo-0271.jpg Lucky is the darker one just like me Laugh

jack_tan
Novice

Oct 8, 2007, 9:19 PM

Post #19 of 22 (2171 views)
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Re: [Old Man] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Wise Old Man from the NORTH... than you very much for your advice but I believe it has come too late Frown

... hopefully your message will now be heard and read from other people in this forum Smile

Again, really appreciate your input

min_puzzle
Enthusiast

Oct 9, 2007, 5:43 PM

Post #20 of 22 (2148 views)
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Re: [jack_tan] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey.

That's alright, dun want u to puke blood anyways Laugh

. Where's Gasing Hill??

So it actually 7 weeks? Haha, i was starting to think how could u meet up with Ally after 7 mnths since u n her owner are not on speaking terms.

They all look sooo beautiful! My fav. pic is the one with 2 GRs in it. Is dat Lucky n Mighty? Wic pics is Ally??

jack_tan
Novice

Oct 10, 2007, 3:28 AM

Post #21 of 22 (2116 views)
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Re: [min_puzzle] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Gasing Hill is in PJ where they some dog lovers organize jungle trekking almost every Saturday morning.

Lucky is the darker male. Ally is the lighter one and the small one is Mighty,

min_puzzle
Enthusiast

Oct 10, 2007, 3:47 AM

Post #22 of 22 (2111 views)
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Re: [jack_tan] 2 cents of breeding your dog (experience) [In reply to]	Can't Post

haha, im frm Penang. All the dog lovers in PJ oragannize this jungle trekking?? How cool is dat?? I wish Dog lovers in Penang will oraganize sumthing like that too.

They all look soo beautiful!