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Home: Breed Specific: Working Group:
Neapolitan Mastiff





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RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Oct 26, 2005, 4:59 PM

Post #26 of 49 (2018 views)
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Re: [koolfang] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Got it Smile
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Oct 26, 2005, 5:12 PM

Post #27 of 49 (2017 views)
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Re: [Lex Ang] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Lex,
Agreed.
No offence taken here as I think the same too. Cool
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



Lex Ang
Novice

Oct 26, 2005, 8:22 PM

Post #28 of 49 (2003 views)
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Re: [boon] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hi,

When i mentioned retrain/refinement... i do not meant for ring or schh....it is what u and i understand by the word og 'guardian' jaga rumah right ....

U need to make sure they're in control all the time....and simply find a group of strangers to so call make him feel more confident will lead u to nothing more than 1 ending.....dead end.

By agitation the dog, and keep doing it that way......without a release and relief.....god bless...


Hi Boon,

I appreciate your opinons. Pardon my ignorance, can you explain to me in details what will be the consequences without releasing? And usually what are the methods you use for a release and relief? Do you have any methods you wish sharing with me?

Hey no worries realitydreamer, I am totally not offended. I agree with Boon too. We are all try to exchange knowledge in order to improve. I love to hear a wide range of views.
Best Wishes


boon
Doggyman


Oct 26, 2005, 8:35 PM

Post #29 of 49 (1998 views)
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Re: [Lex Ang] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

Put it this way...think of agitation same like u r pumping air into the balloon nr filling water into the bottle...at certain point, certain time, certain condition....one find moment where the balloon will explode and the bottle with water will be full.

Same for agitation to a said dog...keep agitating and keep agitating...when the time come for him to bite (be it for testing/training/REAL) do u think u can get him to OUT ? or the dog will fully charged at the crook/helper/strager or his/her prey item.

What i meant by release was after some agitation work...u need to release his tention or should i call it satisfy his needs by (may be a bite....or some manwork)...that way u will keep a balance in the dog and he know the release point will come...ur key here is to make sure that u r in control...u r the only one that he take command for whether to bite or stand beside u and get ready....

my english is not good, i hope u get what i mean by that....may be chloe can help to explain further...i know u can ok....

By the way...why we need to agitate the dog ? naturally they know how to bite, they know how to sit, they know how to down...and etc etc...

Think of it ok....

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

(This post was edited by boon on Oct 26, 2005, 8:38 PM)


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Oct 27, 2005, 4:05 AM

Post #30 of 49 (1975 views)
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Re: [boon] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Boon,
Your english sounds fine to me Cool
but..
I do not undertand your second theory...
What do u mean by "By the way...why we need to agitate the dog ? naturally they know how to bite, they know how to sit, they know how to down...and etc etc... "
I suppose they naturally noe how to bite..it's just when that we need to train for. Not sure if that is what u mean... Frown
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



boon
Doggyman


Oct 27, 2005, 5:29 AM

Post #31 of 49 (1971 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

I ask Lex to think about it...y we need to train for things that they already know naturally....

simple answer...CONTROL.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Oct 27, 2005, 9:54 PM

Post #32 of 49 (1963 views)
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Re: [boon] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

oh..cheh.Tongue
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



Lex Ang
Novice

Oct 28, 2005, 3:16 AM

Post #33 of 49 (1935 views)
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Re: [boon] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Boon,

I deeply appreciate your enlightenment and pls don't worry about your English because mine aren't good too.

I agree with your point let me know if I am wrong. You are saying by allowing the dog to bite on decoy or any form of human agitator after a few agitation session will help the dog to release and in turn you can train to control the dog aggression. Let say get him to release a burglar when command is given?

Can I check with you if we have the agitator holding on to a bite sleeve or any object he use to agitate the dog, when the dog gets very aggressive the agitator will release the object for the dog to bite on then run off does it actually helps in training the control too?

I am sorry another question, let say we don't allow the dog to bite, we just continue to let him be agitated as what I mentioned in my previous post. Does it mean when someone really break into the property the dog will charge all the way and attack the stranger/ burglar until he/she stop struggling? (Like what happen in a dog fight)

Thanks?
Best Wishes


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Oct 28, 2005, 8:01 AM

Post #34 of 49 (1926 views)
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Re: [Lex Ang] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Lex,
I am not Boon...but I hope u don't mind me butting in..Blush

"You are saying by allowing the dog to bite on decoy or any form of human agitator after a few agitation session will help the dog to release and in turn you can train to control the dog aggression. Let say get him to release a burglar when command is given?"

From my understanding,allowing him to bite is to release stress built up from the agitation. The control is pretty much how u train the other commands.

For a real protection dog,he will be concentrating on the person.Not the object. The sleeve is merely to protect the decoy. Most serious PP dogs would spit the sleeve out & ignore it completely when the decoy agitates him again. I don't think that has anything to do with control. It teaches young dogs that by just biting the sleeve,it isn;t going to stop the threat.

"Let say we don't allow the dog to bite, we just continue to let him be agitated as what I mentioned in my previous post. Does it mean when someone really break into the property the dog will charge all the way and attack the stranger/ burglar until he/she stop struggling? (Like what happen in a dog fight)"

This is where there will be different opinions. IMO,a dog who has not been taught to bite will not bite or at least he will not be able to stop a man(there are exceptions of course). During training,a dog is taught that he can always win. Giving him confidence. So that when there is a real life situation,he has the confidence that he can win. I have seen dogs who were trained without being allowed to win. Their bite was weak & they were insecure. So if u do not allow the dog to bite,he does not noe that he can win...if the man were to gv a severe blow..it might shake his confidence & u might not get a very effective manstopper. Most dogs will stop biting/attacking when they feel the intruder is no longer a threat. That I think is up to the individual dog if u do not train how to end an attack.

Hope this helps.
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



boon
Doggyman


Oct 28, 2005, 5:06 PM

Post #35 of 49 (1923 views)
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Re: [Lex Ang] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

More or less Chloe had said it all.....She and myself been there, tried it, took bites from the real dog where the man is his only target, bite sleeve is never his target and prey item...and Lex, can u imagine how dare she is to took the bite from that well trained and 101%in control dog....when she was 16 i believe


Quote
I am sorry another question, let say we don't allow the dog to bite, we just continue to let him be agitated as what I mentioned in my previous post. Does it mean when someone really break into the property the dog will charge all the way and attack the stranger/ burglar until he/she stop struggling? (Like what happen in a dog fight)



It really depends.....that's all i can tell....

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


koolfang
Member


Oct 28, 2005, 6:09 PM

Post #36 of 49 (1922 views)
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Re: [boon] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

boon,

u took bite and u saw chloe took bites before... have we met...? were u at azman's place...? heard u have have zps line working gsd... very impressive... mind pouring some knowledge or share with inexperience dog lovers like us...?


- its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog...


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Oct 28, 2005, 6:15 PM

Post #37 of 49 (1921 views)
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Re: [boon] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

minus 1 TongueBlush
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



(This post was edited by RealityDreamer on Oct 28, 2005, 6:19 PM)


Lex Ang
Novice

Oct 28, 2005, 6:44 PM

Post #38 of 49 (1908 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, of course not. I welcome all contributions and your post will educate all forum mates too

I totally agreed with you. Thats what I experience too, what you say is a real protection dogs to me. Unlike those I seen in Singapore they are just sleeve happy... Frown I was thinking after the dog has gone th'ru all the stages you mentioned in your previous post, what are the possible senarios we can set up for him as an exercise so when it come to the real situation they won't be confuse.

Sorry for my ignorance, can I check with you what are the ways you use initially to starts a young (3mths to 6mths) pups prepare for protection work in the future?

I am impress of what Boon said about you. Keep it up! I hardly find people like to in Singapore nowadays.
Best Wishes


Lex Ang
Novice

Oct 28, 2005, 6:51 PM

Post #39 of 49 (1903 views)
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Re: [boon] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Boon, Yup I think she made great sense in her post. You do provide great contribution too. I appreciate it. Smile I am impressed by her too. good people you have around your place.
Best Wishes


boon
Doggyman


Oct 28, 2005, 7:05 PM

Post #40 of 49 (1894 views)
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Re: [koolfang] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I'm not sure if i met you before..i had been to Azman's place many times bit not as often like those taht stay in the klang valley.

R u referring to my boy ? Bosco ? u just need to meet him in person to get to know what zPS and Czech line is all about....Blush

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


boon
Doggyman


Oct 28, 2005, 7:13 PM

Post #41 of 49 (1892 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
minus 1 TongueBlush



Aiyah....ok 15 then....Cool

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


koolfang
Member


Oct 28, 2005, 7:47 PM

Post #42 of 49 (1880 views)
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Re: [boon] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

cool, where about are u...? penang, perak or johor...? i wouldn't mind going the distance to face a zPS gsd and take the bite...... always fascinated by zPS dog and honestly, haven't had the pleasure to take one's bite... opinion on van den heuvel...? any comments on DDR...?


- its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog...


boon
Doggyman


Oct 28, 2005, 7:53 PM

Post #43 of 49 (1876 views)
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Re: [koolfang] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

i'm sure u will have a chance to meet the zPS dogs locally in Malaysia....

VDH = hmmm Dari James is a nice lady which have a few legends with her now and....and the rest i guess u better find out you own...not to say that i don share but is not good for me to comments about others over here where they are not in the forum to justify themselves.

DDR ? what u need to know....history ? lineage ? ddr chart ? their system about GSD....what's what's ?

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Oct 29, 2005, 7:55 AM

Post #44 of 49 (1844 views)
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Re: [Lex Ang] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Lex,
Hehehe...sleeve happy dogs r not PP dogs Tongue

Well,possible scenarios...anywhere a crime can happen. So u can try just abt anything. What I like to test is how well the dog can discriminate in a crowd. Or when someone grabs u,can he target the threat's arm? Test him under all terrain,all weather,different surfaces,different heights,different distractions...can even try putting a bitch on heat nearby.Should also socialize him with "good" ppl so that he knows the difference.

There's nth to be sorry abt.. Smile For a PP dog,I would socialize the lil guy like mad. Also,I would do plenty of OB. If it were my PP dog,his obedience must b really good b4 I will start any defense & bitework. I would also give the same foundation as a schH dog for bitework. This is just to teach where the dog should target...tho some pp dogs choose themselves later on Tongue So up to u where u want ur dog to target.Also,don't 4get to teach ur dog to bite the offending arm(or leg)

IMO,anyone can take a bite..as long as ur physically capable. To be a good helper...now that's smth else.Cool
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



Lex Ang
Novice

Oct 29, 2005, 10:36 PM

Post #45 of 49 (1826 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Chloe,

Is the picture your new baby, so GORGOUS!! my heart melting Smile

oh thanks alot for your suggestions. Hmm.. great ideas you have. Can you recommend me any books or any form of articles,where I can learn more about the protection sport?

Also do you happen to know anyone in Singapore doing protection sports?
Best Wishes


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Oct 30, 2005, 8:49 AM

Post #46 of 49 (1810 views)
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Re: [Lex Ang] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Lex,
Haha..yes. Tht is my new gator,Axel Smile Loves pants,shoes,socks & anythin else he can get his mouth on.

On books..here's a thread I started a while back..

www.puppy.com.my/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=104102#104102

Hmm..I read quite a bit on the net. Can't recall which articles or where they were from tho. U could try leerburg's board. Good info & healthy discussions there. Frown

Hmm...the only ppl I noe interested in SchH r the one's in the S'pore GSD club.They are more into show tho..

here's their site:
gsdc.org.sg/v1/#

Hope this helps.

Smile
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



Lex Ang
Novice

Oct 31, 2005, 7:42 AM

Post #47 of 49 (1799 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Chloe,

Thanks they are definitely of great help. Yup, I will look at them soon.

oh yup, they are the only ones qualified in papers to practise Schh. Pardon me pls, I personally find them a little business minded in share infomation of that sort.

Deeply appreciated
Best Wishes


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Oct 31, 2005, 9:31 AM

Post #48 of 49 (1790 views)
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Re: [Lex Ang] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Lex,

Ur welcome Smile

If u don't mind,do keep me updated on ur search.
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



Lex Ang
Novice

Nov 1, 2005, 3:34 AM

Post #49 of 49 (1773 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Neapolitan Mastiff [In reply to] Can't Post

No worries Chloe, I will inform you if I come across anything interesting. We can learn from each other.

Best Wishes

Alex
Best Wishes

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