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Home: Dog and Puppies Talk: Dog Friendly Places:
Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so





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donno
Novice


Jan 2, 2006, 9:45 PM

Post #51 of 68 (1932 views)
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Re: [chaelian] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess from experience and observation, in Malaysia, anything that depends on charitable support will never receive the same level of success enjoyed by some of the overseas examples given. Dependence on government or council support for something that requires non majority interests, maintenance or upkeep also leaves much to be desired in most cases.

In contrast, the shopping mall culture in Malaysia has a success that equals the success of open-air street-front casual shopping seen in most western and developed capitals. In a way, private enterprise and profits has made the free pedestrian strolls along pleasant and comfortable walkways possible with free and clean public toilet facilities. If you don't have a car to park, you even get away with the RM1-3 as all shopping (to support the mall) is voluntary.

Immagine a city council trying to build and properly maintain a pedestrian mall in any town centre to provide a pleasant and comfortable environment for leisure strolls, with clean and free public toilets. I guess if I make these comparisons, it's easier for me to see the "free and easy" dog park existing as a result of private enterprise rather than city council or charitable establishments.


(This post was edited by donno on Jan 2, 2006, 9:50 PM)


chaelian
Dog Kichi

Jan 3, 2006, 5:31 AM

Post #52 of 68 (1921 views)
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Re: [donno] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, I always thought that a non-governmental organisation was essentially private enterprise! In the West, many successful charities are increasingly run along business models so the difference is purely semantics. The reason why I am keen on making this dog park a non-profit is so that funds can be solicited legally and that it is "seen" to be a project for social benefit (I also don't want it to be viewed as "competing" with other existing pet-related businesses). That doesn't mean that it cannot be run efficiently. In fact, BarkPark manages to not only make money for itself but also for other charities, something which I greatly admire and would like to emulate.

BTW, I intend to target corporate businesses for funds - due to the possibly "sensitive" nature of this project, I don't expect any funds forthcoming from government sources.

The success of shopping malls says more about the corruption rampant in local government than it does about private enterprise! Many developers have got away with building on green-lung areas as a result of bribery and closed-door deals. And with more concrete jungle than green jungle, what choice do Malaysians have but to spend their leisure time indoors? Do we wonder why we are so poor in sports? And conservation? And culture?

Anyway, how many public parks do we have which are run "professionally"? I doubt if many of our parks officers even have qualifications in parks management. This, I think, is part of the reason why our public facilities are poorly maintained - no knowledge, no care.


donno
Novice


Jan 3, 2006, 8:02 AM

Post #53 of 68 (1915 views)
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Re: [chaelian] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Agree with you on the running of public parks. KLCC park for the public too wouldn't be possible if not for a profit orientated shopping cum commercial development to fund its upkeep and maintenance.

I guess in debating between the corrupt commercial approach and trying luck with the generosity of private corporations for canine concerns, its really the end result a lot of us are looking for.

Anyway, as for our green lungs, I think those of us who appreciate its existence and love the outdoors are really a minority. Just see how most houses these days have more indoor space than garden, and you can see where majority preference is. Sad but true.


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 4, 2006, 7:37 AM

Post #54 of 68 (1891 views)
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Re: [groovemaster] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Ya know...I blame Groovy for teaching Axel how to roll,jump,slide & play in the mud ! LaughTongue
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groovemaster
Enthusiast


Jan 6, 2006, 12:21 AM

Post #55 of 68 (1869 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh Another fan of mud baths. Great fun wasnt it. Now if only dey had a proper park 2 refine dose skills. Imagine if offleash, den can really get down n dirty during d rainy season. Shocked

Glad dat Groovy managed some civilized play with ur GSD pup. He is normally wary of large dogs with big pointy ears n not so friendly with most male adult dogs…dunno why. Just waiting 4 him 2 get nipped by 1 of dem 1 day, so dat he’ll tone down on his bully antics n learn some submissive behavior Angelic. On d other hand, he may just enjoy d tussle.
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groovemaster
Enthusiast


Jan 6, 2006, 1:38 AM

Post #56 of 68 (1846 views)
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Re: [chaelian] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink Always thot dat in our environment, d most reliable source of funds is from d members demselves. If d park has a consistent n dedicated membership list, den d annual n daily park visit fees shld b able 2 cover most of d rental n maintenance costs 4 at least a year (assuming a good rate on d land lease). Den d park dun hv 2 constantly rely on funding from charity or corporations 2 survive, dese sources being unpredictable in d long term. Any additional funds obtained from thereon is a bonus n can b used 4 upgrading d park. Further down d road, sessions 4 dog sports n activities can also help d park 2 bcome self sustaining.

Contributions will b welcomed n necessary ven 1st setting up d park coz d outlays will b higher. But membership drive is key 2 ensure d viability of d park coz in d end, its d members’ dog park. Will b handy 2 find out b4hand how many members will actually support d venture in order 4 it 2 work.

With regards 2 d suggested land banks, near LRT lines is an idea. An ideal spot will b 1 dat is similar 2 Pdg Merbok on Jln Gasing, where OB training is conducted. Location is convenient, not too close 2 houses, flanked by trees n roads (ie. need 2 b isolated somewat 2 mask d barking).

Think u’ll still need d local council’s involvement coz will need deir approval 4 use of land n business licensing 4 d premises n construction works, particularly if close 2 housing areas. There’s always some red tape. Crazy
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RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 6, 2006, 6:49 AM

Post #57 of 68 (1828 views)
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Re: [groovemaster] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

lol. Oh this guy loves the rain.He gets extra hyper in the drizzle.Pirate

Haha yea...I was pleasantly surprised too. I remember u mentioning smth abt Groovy not being too comfortable with males bigger than him.

I think he *really* enjoyed the tussle Cool
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RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 6, 2006, 7:07 AM

Post #58 of 68 (1826 views)
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Re: [groovemaster] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Truth be told..I am not a big fan of dog parks. They are dangerous. *We* are responsible owners. *We* train our dogs.*We* make sure our dogs recall is as solid as rock. *We* socialise them....but how bout the other dogs/owners?

How sure are you that other dogs will go to their owners when another dog starts posturing?

Generally most dogs owners have the common sense and responsibility to make sure that they're dog is not an aggressive one but sometimes...they themselves don't know.

Besides that, when there is a group of dogs that are allowed to run together, they instinctively try to establish a rank order (or packing order). If there are several dogs that want to assume the role of pack leader there are going to be problems. If the dogs are left to their own devices, each dog will assume its rank within the pack. There is a good possibility that fights will develop to determine what order various dogs fall in.

You cannot assume that every dog in the park is a well-mannered, well-trained pet. Just because you see it playing with other dogs does not mean that it will play with your dog. It has already settled the rank order with these other dogs and the game may be going according to their rules. Your dog will not know the rules and can easily get into trouble.

Dogs have died because of this. Pirate
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donno
Novice


Jan 7, 2006, 7:59 AM

Post #59 of 68 (1814 views)
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Re: [groovemaster] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Its quite true that depending on charitable or supporting sponsors can be very risky as contributions and sponsorships can end as easily as they started when the sponsor's strategies change or reviews their corporate directions. I've seen many sponsored projects just die a quick death this way.

The idea of a fee based membership system sounds a lot more plausible. Golf clubs manage to develop and maintain superb grounds based on this method and although initial membership fees can be hefty, monthly green fees can be relatively affordable by proportion, and access is free and unlimited for members. Scale that model down by a hundred times to a plot of land a hundred times smaller, a clubhouse a hundred times smaller or cheaper, no golf carts, but maintain a pro-shop, and wallah, we might just have a workable solution. ...even if its under Tenaga lines or LRT tracks.


groovemaster
Enthusiast


Jan 7, 2006, 11:08 PM

Post #60 of 68 (1800 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink Fair comment n certainly needs careful consideration ven setting up a dog park. Certainly vetting procedures wld hv 2 b in place prior 2 entry. Dogs shld b on leash till dey bcom at ease with d environment. Dogs shld also b under d constant supervision of owners whilst in d park n a reliable recall wld b paramount. There r no guarantees n as in any venture, there’ll b risks involved. Much like any walk in d park at present, u r likely 2 run in2 a stray dog or 2 n d possibility of a scrap is real, particularly if ur dog is off leash.

Unsure But wat is d alternative…v continue 2 sneak around looking 4 empty patches of land without d ‘No Dogs Allowed’ sign 2 exercise n play with our dogs, whilst knowing full well dat v cld still b flouting laws pertaining 2 walking our dog in public places…thank god, enforcement isnt 1 of our strong points. N dis is even b4 v start going off leash. Examined against dis environment, den a dog park is a welcomed sight. Tongue
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(This post was edited by groovemaster on Jan 7, 2006, 11:12 PM)



cute_doggy7
Dog Kichi

Jan 8, 2006, 5:31 AM

Post #61 of 68 (1787 views)
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Re: [shyeow2] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

i really really hope that at least 1 park like that would be located in or near subang jaya. now my mum dont want to drive me and dash to cause it too far.
in memory of SNOWY
2003-2005
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tho we onli have 10months to be with each other but its the best..
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RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 8, 2006, 8:26 AM

Post #62 of 68 (1780 views)
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Re: [groovemaster] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

At the moment,I think it would be best for all dogs to be introduced gradually on leash..Once proven that the dog can settle in with the pack..then I suppose it's not so bad. Perhaps a short/light leash should be used as well (6" long) in case anything happens,owners can still pull the dog away with a lower risk of being bitten,giving more control.

Besides vetting (great idea btw) I think the dogs need a certain level of obedience in order to use the park.Dogs could be seperated into weight/size group. Imagine a great dane & lil Groovy going head to head Shocked

Pack of strays still not so bad,they are not that well socialized & are afraid of humans. The well socialised pet is more dangerous than a stray. U got a point tho...lol...enforcement isn't a strong point of ours. Maybe that is another reason why I am not 100% pro-dog parkTongue

So much worry while our little ones play their tails off..! I have had to break up quite a number of fights & my dogs have been attacked time & time again..that's probably y I'm a little paranoid abt these kind of things.If all dogs had owners like u,then I do not mind letting my pack run around in a dog park.Smile
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donno
Novice


Jan 8, 2006, 4:19 PM

Post #63 of 68 (1770 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Official dog park or no official dog park, at least for now, thanks to this particular private profit and sponsorship orientated establishment, there are official dog days at a park... Yay yay! Today is officially dog day at BU Central park!

By the way, I've bumped into several off-leash dogs on such occasions but probably only because the owners are confident enough that the dogs won't wander away and will stay close. Donno too goes off-leash at times as she's shy and sticks really close especially in crowded areas or when there are many other dogs around.

See you at BU Park!


groovemaster
Enthusiast


Jan 10, 2006, 12:29 AM

Post #64 of 68 (1747 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Thks 4 d vote of confidence, but my JRT isnt exactly well behaved or obedient either. If u were vetting d park entrants, he wld possibly hv 2 bribe u 2 get in Tongue. Only saving grace is dat he’ll do his own thing with his ball n wun really bother any other dog ven in play mode. Just dat overly friendly dogs dat rush in close 2 him may get a rude greeting…hence, overly sociable dogs (as u’ve correctly pointed out) will also need 2 b gradually introduced 2 d environment, not only d less sociable 1s.

Yup dats d ideal dog park setting n rules of association…ob training, short leashes n separate areas r certainly desirable. But like u said, enforcement here will b very much a hit n miss affair. So spats may still occur n much will depend on d owners demselves 2 b able 2 call off deir dogs in dese instances b4 it turns sour. Perhaps dis shld b top on d vetting criteria.

Saw Axel at d Fastest Recall yesterday n hd a good laugh ven he decided 2 do some tracking work instead Shocked…cant keep a good sniffer dog down. He seems 2 b a really quiet n agreeable GSD, so pubs n cafes r a possibility 4 d big fella.

GDanes…d small fella may hv a go but d GDane will b gentle enuf d nudge him away. Talking bout GDanes, he hs sniff dem all (pic)...
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groovemaster
Enthusiast


Jan 10, 2006, 9:16 PM

Post #65 of 68 (1717 views)
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Re: [donno] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool Yup dese events r really great fun. Only wish dat dog official park days r more frequent instead of once every 2 or 3 mths.

Must hv missed Donno on d day. Did she take part in any games or did she just prefer 2 go swimming in d lake? Plenty of retrievers at d lakeside. Tongue
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RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 10, 2006, 9:52 PM

Post #66 of 68 (1716 views)
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Re: [groovemaster] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

IMHO,I think what Groovy does is great. He teaches other dogs manners. He's a great teacher especially to young dogs. "Never rush up to strangers" Tongue

Let's hope whoever is interested in setting up a dog park reads this. Wink

Lol! Laugh That caught me off guard as well! He looked so eager to come to me. All of a sudden stop to start smelling around for food. Blush

He's pretty quiet around new dogs. He got bitten a couple time by other dogs already so he's pretty careful around them. He's a little rascal once he's used to them tho & he's even worse when there's food Pirate

That's a real cute pic..! Smile Do u have a gallery? Would love to see his photo's...
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groovemaster
Enthusiast


Jan 13, 2006, 7:01 AM

Post #67 of 68 (1687 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink Ha ha…d alternative school of thot. Guess it makes some sense coz imagine our very own reaction if a complete stranger came rushing towards us n stood right in our face. Unfortunately, not many dog owners subscribe 2 it n d 1st dog dat growls or bares teeth is usually deemed an aggressive dog with poor social skills, whilst d on rushing dog is only trying 2 b friendly n wishes 2 play. Double whammy. Crazy

Hence, best 2 keep his disciplinary methods in check…hs overused dem, more often den not.

No proper gallery yet, will try n set up 1 soon. Yah shld hv videotaped his very 1st recall race, really funny. Wanna c some clowns, hv a look at dis clip of d OB-Agi race at www.dropshots.com/groovemaster (latest clip)


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donno
Novice


Jan 18, 2006, 12:11 AM

Post #68 of 68 (1644 views)
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Re: [groovemaster] Off-Leash Parks anyone? nah didn't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Donno's not one for swimming in the lake. A bit clingy when in crowds so she would have been with me all the time.... leash or no leash. We did take part in the "Fastest eating duo" contest though but this is the second time I've suffered swollowing dry cereal in vain. She somehow just wont eat those biscuits. She's quite fussy with what she eats... actually she has one that she's used to.

Anyway, she's still with the collar in the picture.... red with white bones and paw prints.

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