Malaysia Dog and Puppy Portal: Dog & Puppy Health: General Dog Health and Care: GSD Expert HELP!!!: Page 2

Home


	MAIN INDEX	FAQ & HELP	PHOTO GALLERY	WHO'S ONLINE	LOG IN

Home: Dog & Puppy Health: General Dog Health and Care:
GSD Expert HELP!!!

Enroll Your Furkids To Training Classes

Building a great bond and relationship with your dog

Find out more >>>

1 2

View All

mackmack
Doggyman

Oct 24, 2003, 3:08 AM

Post #26 of 50 (1437 views)
Shortcut

Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

PSD,
thanks for sharing.
Smile

unlike GR (the friendliness), I think GSD tend to be with ONLY one Boss, the way how GSD look at their trainer/owner, the way they listen to, and the way they react to commands..... my uncle and I are worrying if... IF GSD will listen to "COMMAND"? or to jsut the person who handle them? I know, u may answer me "it depends~" but honestly, when comparing to retrievers, somehow the temperament of GSD will definitely be different in terms of "obedient" as GR could be very easy to anyone.

--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--

(This post was edited by mackmack on Oct 24, 2003, 3:10 AM)

PSD
ALPHA

Oct 27, 2003, 8:54 PM

Post #27 of 50 (1427 views)
Shortcut

Re: [mackmack] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Mack,

True. No GSD can beat a GR in the class of socialness as it is not a dog that sees every stranger as a potential playmate. Tongue

If the owner allows the dog to get rowdy most of the times and not enough early socialisation in this case with children then what you say is true. Otherwise GSD is not known to be bad with children. Of course I'm talking about strong tempremented ones......don't want to be faced with a lawsuit is one of those weak nerved beauties decides to bite.

Let just say no comparison. A GSD is a GSD not a GR. You have to decide what you actually want at the end.

The reaction to commands and intensity of it demonstrate that it is a breed that can be very well trained to be relied on. All those are results of commitment of the handler/owner. These does not happen if you do not subject it to specific training. Also those you see in competitive trials are not a normal quality ones to start with, those are specially selected drivey dogs who has their already good drives sharpened and polished over the years to become the diamond you see today. A pet dog quality GSD with strong nerves and temprements will be a great pet dog to play fetch with. Nothing wrong with this rite? Laugh

End of the day you still have to decide what you want loh Tongue

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

(This post was edited by PSD on Oct 27, 2003, 9:32 PM)

mackmack
Doggyman

Oct 29, 2003, 4:58 PM

Post #28 of 50 (1406 views)
Shortcut

Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Of course, GR is GR, GSD is GSD. I will never confused by this~ Tongue

I'm only confused with the "different lines" within the same breed of GSD.
and you are right, I always think... it's all depends on how the onwer raise the pup, how are they being socialised with kids. But still.... better dun take the risk to see GSD=GR even the training methods are the same towards these 2 breeds.

--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--

PSD
ALPHA

Nov 1, 2003, 1:07 AM

Post #29 of 50 (1395 views)
Shortcut

Re: [mackmack] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

If you are more into GSD you will soon be able to see the difference of these 2 lines. I already decided that these are 2 different species altogether. Tongue

But, still must disagree with you lah on the risk you mentioned. It is not as bad as you think. The key is back to 1st, the right temprement and 2nd the right socialisation. Have you heard of a case where a weak nerved GR bitten a kid? I have. Smile

End of the day, if we want through reliability whichever breeds we wanted, we must start increasing our own skills in reading the dog and training them. Tongue

This is our only insurance. Smile

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

mackmack
Doggyman

Nov 1, 2003, 6:38 PM

Post #30 of 50 (1392 views)
Shortcut

Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

well~ I have the experience to handle lab, bullmastiff and GR, they are more or less... the same level of easiness to train. If I manage to well train my beagle which is a super hyper active and stubborn breed, i think GSD should not be a problem. and you are right, must study on their particular temperament and know the ways to handle each different breed.
am i potential? Tongue

still, I'm very interested in the protection training on working dogs, BUT, on the other hand, I would prefer "domestic training" on my own, means.... in-house obedient training that sufficient for him to socialise with family members, visitors and friends.

p/s: I dont' like my own dog be an odedient robot Unsure

I like to see them understand me, but they can have their own "thinking" Tongue

)

--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--

PSD
ALPHA

Nov 3, 2003, 8:12 PM

Post #31 of 50 (1390 views)
Shortcut

Re: [mackmack] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ying,

All dogs can be handled and train. The diff is breed specifics. Some are stubborn, some are easy, some are plain lazy. There are some breed specifics bread for specialised task but all can be trained.

The methods also differed from compulsions trainers, choker yankers, cattle prodders.......to motivational trainers utilising the dogs own drives to satisfy and manupulate the handler. Really, I donno how you train, have to see your method first before giving you the thumbs up Tongue

Before training, you have to set up your target for the dog. Is he for family pet? Is he for competitive OB, Is he for Agility? Is he for SchH? Is he for Personal Protection? etc. Without this target in mind the training cannot prceed smoothly.

For home pet, it is easy starting with motivational method and reinforced it positively to get a reliable thinking pet dog. Compulsions here can be used sparingly and correctly as a negative reinforcement to correct wrong behaviours without doing too much harm.

For competitive Sports dogs, you have to be very careful not to inhibit his natural drives. These are the drives which he needs to become a happy, high attitude, fast and furiously blazing dog in the trials. Compulsions can be used to prove the reliability of the dog but the catch here is that the timing and occassions must be totally correct and you must have the shill to bring the dog up again in high drive after the correction......this is easier said than done for normal handlers.

For Guard and PP purpose, you have to start your dogs almost similar like a sports dog. Have a wonderful bond. Like Azman said before "give him a reason to risk his life for you" Teach him in early years that earth is the most wonderful place to stay. Then when reach maturity, then some specialised training is required for him to differentiate between the heavenly earth to someone that could hurt him and his handler.

So u see, how and what method to use is all different and dependent on what career path you set for your dog.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

Amanda85
Doggyman

Nov 3, 2003, 9:07 PM

Post #32 of 50 (1388 views)
Shortcut

Re: [mackmack] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

according to my experience of handling two dogs now, one is miniature fox terrier and one mongrel.

the terrier is very obedient or maybe robot to what you have refer it to. when i call him to sit, then he will sit, when i say stop, then he will freeze. when he hear tunder, he will quickly hide. and he don't chase cats and don't even bark at passer by. every visitor praise him for his good behaviour.

on the other hand, the mongrel is very alert and brave. he isn't afraid of thunder or everything. when my grandpa beat and shout at her for digging holes in the garden, she simply just ignore his command. so i knew that beating and shouting won't work to train her. instead i try to talk to her in order to make her understand that 'You cannot dig'. this really works after i talk to her for a week time.

my relatives tend to say that mongrel are stupid, but i found out that mongrel is smart too. she also can perform tricks that i taught her. she can even learn how to fetch a frisbee in 3 days.

the biggest diff between two of them is during dinner time. i feed them both rice mixed with meat/beef. the terrier will eat up everything but the mongrel will only up the meat and left over those rice.

Pacco de Mongrel
~ Come and join us for a doggie jungle trekking @ Bukit Gasing every Saturday morning ~

(This post was edited by Amanda85 on Nov 3, 2003, 9:12 PM)

PSD
ALPHA

Nov 3, 2003, 9:44 PM

Post #33 of 50 (1385 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amanda85] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

my relatives tend to say that mongrel are stupid

Well Amanda,

Hope its ok with you if I give some comments here. What you had written above sort of caught my eye.

This is the sort of comments that non-dog people will say. I would say that not all purebreds are the super dogs with IQ of 100 nor are they all stupid. Same also for mongrels and mix breed. Same like people. Are we going to call a mixed breed human doomed to the whole life of stupidity? It is all in the individual dog.....I guess you know what I'm trying to express here. Smile

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

mackmack
Doggyman

Nov 4, 2003, 1:57 AM

Post #34 of 50 (1379 views)
Shortcut

Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I train my dog not to be a robot.
Smile

but must understand what i mean.
erm... YES, as a pet.

--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--

mackmack
Doggyman

Nov 4, 2003, 1:58 AM

Post #35 of 50 (1378 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amanda85] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

smart or not smart.... it's not the matter of pure or non pure breed.....
no bad dogs, but bad handlers. (always true)

--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--

Amanda85
Doggyman

Nov 4, 2003, 3:57 PM

Post #36 of 50 (1373 views)
Shortcut

Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

but i think this happen becoz the terrier was not raise by me. he was dump at my house when my relative decided to migrate to Australia. by that time he was already 5 years old. so all this while is my grandparents who feed him.

Pacco de Mongrel
~ Come and join us for a doggie jungle trekking @ Bukit Gasing every Saturday morning ~

PSD
ALPHA

Nov 4, 2003, 10:52 PM

Post #37 of 50 (1369 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amanda85] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Amanda,

I see, sometimes the upbringing of a dog will have a big impact of the dog too. Maybe this is the case with your terrier.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

Amanda85
Doggyman

Nov 6, 2003, 2:18 AM

Post #38 of 50 (1361 views)
Shortcut

Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

you own GSD, right?
recently i noticed that GSD in show tends to stand with their hind legs lower. why?

Pacco de Mongrel
~ Come and join us for a doggie jungle trekking @ Bukit Gasing every Saturday morning ~

boon
Doggyman

Nov 6, 2003, 4:55 PM

Post #39 of 50 (1359 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amanda85] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Amanda,

Not recently but for the pass century or so.......the banana back GSD.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

PSD
ALPHA

Nov 6, 2003, 9:02 PM

Post #40 of 50 (1357 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amanda85] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Amanda,

Breed standard's once set will give different interpretation to different people. The danger in those conflicts of interpretation is that it can go to the extreeme. For instance what you mentioned is the slooping angulation and croup.

Quote

Croup_ Long and gradually sloping. Back_ The back is straight, very strongly developed without sag or roach, and relatively short. The desirable long proportion is not derived from a long back, but from overall length with relation to height, which is achieved by length of forequarter and length of withers and hindquarter, viewed from the side.

The above is part of the breed standard. But 3 diff people given the same writing will imagine it differently. When it comes to ring conformation everyone is trying to beat each other resulting in more and more slope being selected as the winning dog. These progressed or rather I should use the word "regressed" the breed to what u see it today as the so-called banana backs, coacroachy backs of what you see today.

If you study the conformation line GSD and its development in USA you will see that all their dogs originally are from Germany. Both American;s and Germans are using the same breed standards but today everyone knows that the American lines and the German lines are a world of a difference in appearence, physical looks and ability. These atested to the fault in weakness of human interpretation dependency.

I encourage you to research a bit to check out today's winning dogs and see their physical build up and compare them to the early dog models like Klodo Boxberg(1925) , roland v. starkenburg(1906-07), Erich v. Grafenwerth (1920), Utz v. Haus Schutting(1929), Pfeffer v Bern(1937) n (1937 US Grand victor). Then you will see that what appears today as GSD's are actually not the same original breed.

So sometimes when people overdo it and still thinks it is a perfect look and place ribbons on it is what causes the detriment of the breed.

Fortunately there is a minority of breeders holding on to the old tradition of preserving the breed based on the advice of the founder that this dog should remain a working dog. These people concentrate their breeding goals on maintaining the working ability, original look and strong temprement of these dogs. Today we still have a chance of getting the original lines of dogs unadulterated by the conformation rings. There is such dogs in Malaysia.....few and apart. We hoped these original lines of GSD to be the saviour of the breed. You will rarely see them in the conformation rings today but they will surely appear in sports where they are very atheletic and excellent working partners.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

Amanda85
Doggyman

Nov 11, 2003, 6:27 PM

Post #41 of 50 (1346 views)
Shortcut

Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

just wanna ask some question.
if i were to buy a GSD, where should i buy from?
how much does it cost for a show quality and for a pet quality?
is female cheaper compare to male?
can a pet quality take part in a dog show?

Pacco de Mongrel
~ Come and join us for a doggie jungle trekking @ Bukit Gasing every Saturday morning ~

PSD
ALPHA

Nov 11, 2003, 7:07 PM

Post #42 of 50 (1344 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amanda85] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Amanda,

I could answer your request as a general rule of thumb and not in detail so as not to infringe the boards policy. Hope you understand.

1) U should get a GSD from a place which you can see both the parents and the replies from the breeder is both informative and logical. In short you must be comfortable with his knowledge and dedication to the breed. (Petshop is a no no unfortunately as no conscientious breeder will sell their dogs to petshops)

2) Cost is between 2500 - 5000 depending on the quality of the puppies. A pet quality is on the lower rung of the price range. But these pet quality dog must still have good temprement/nerve. Below these quality where the puppy is of poor temprement/nerve problems no responsible breeder will even think of selling.

3) Female or male should be rated as in (2) all depends on quality and temprements.

4) Pet quality with a cert can take part in shows as certs just certify that a dog is of pure breed and nothing of the quality. The most important factor is the criteria of evaluation of "pet quality" eg. A show dog breeder will evaluate the qualities based on beauty and structure then follow by temprements as secondary but working dog person will evaluate the temprements and working ability first and beauty second. So indirectly, IMHO, you might actually have a better chance of landing yourself with a nice looking dog from working line cheaper if they are a pet quality.......of course there are other thoughts that goes the other way too.

You did mention about shows I noticed. If you are into shows, then perhaps you should look at adults too that way the risk is not tht great as you can see the final dog. Smile

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

Amanda85
Doggyman

Nov 13, 2003, 4:40 AM

Post #43 of 50 (1336 views)
Shortcut

Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

thanks for answering all my question.

will look into you later if i have any enquiries.

Pacco de Mongrel
~ Come and join us for a doggie jungle trekking @ Bukit Gasing every Saturday morning ~

RealityDreamer
Doggyman

Nov 13, 2003, 12:14 PM

Post #44 of 50 (1335 views)
Shortcut

Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well said on the mongrels =) Thumbs up.

Also, thanks for the names of GSD's...was looking for the original type GSD..but i keep having search results with show dogs/kennels saying that their's the original (no offence to show kaki's,what i meant is that i was looking for the ori version bred by Capt. Max)

hmm...anymore GSD's? or perhaps good websites?

Thanks again =)
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)

PSD
ALPHA

Nov 13, 2003, 8:47 PM

Post #45 of 50 (1334 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amanda85] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Amanda,

Glad to be able to help. Most important is the understanding of the breed before you get them. Smile

Drop me a line anytime if needed any help.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

PSD
ALPHA

Nov 13, 2003, 8:53 PM

Post #46 of 50 (1333 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RealityDreamer] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

RD, Try your search on "working GSD" but really to get a full understanding and ability to grasp and recognise the working pools, you needed to study the line and practically know almost every dog there is Tongue

Sometimes, the lines do get mixed by the show fellas to improve on the temprements and nerve of their show stocks.

Drop me a line, perhaps I can help give you some sites to check out.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

RealityDreamer
Doggyman

Nov 14, 2003, 12:20 AM

Post #47 of 50 (1329 views)
Shortcut

Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

hello

would love more working GSD websites to check out..

what's your e-mail address?
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)

Amanda85
Doggyman

Nov 17, 2003, 6:07 AM

Post #48 of 50 (1312 views)
Shortcut

Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

need some help.

kinki had just recover from her wound, but the skin is still bald around the wound. what can i do to make the fur grow back faster?

i want to bring her to the MIPE dog carnival, but i afraid that she can't manage to grow back the fur in time.

Pacco de Mongrel
~ Come and join us for a doggie jungle trekking @ Bukit Gasing every Saturday morning ~

PSD
ALPHA

Nov 17, 2003, 9:29 AM

Post #49 of 50 (1310 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amanda85] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Amanda,

What causes the wounds? There are many probabilities of wounds some will grow back faster while others will take a long time. The factors are determined by the age of the dog and the infection of the wound. I have a friend with a GSD which sustained some injuries during a trial. The dog was operated on and it took him 1 year without any furs growing. But he succedded in growing it back with usage of some "human used tonic". Yup it seams a miracle cure to me but I'm not about to recomend this to you just telling you the story for you to know about the furs growing back.

What I would suggest you to use is feed suplements like human grade salmon/cod liver oil plus a dose of vit. E. This will help in the skin and fur related issues. I would use 1000iu oil n 100iu vit.E daily until the condition improves. this suggestion is if the wound have healed totally. If there is still infections then you should get a service of a vet to cure the infection first. good luck.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

Amanda85
Doggyman

Nov 17, 2003, 6:53 PM

Post #50 of 50 (1303 views)
Shortcut

Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

yup, kinki had already fully recover after i bought some medication from the vet.
she got hurt because she got bitten by the terrier.
the wound is small actually (smaller than 5 cent coin) but the area that become bald is quite big (about 50 cent coin) and looks black in colour.

Pacco de Mongrel
~ Come and join us for a doggie jungle trekking @ Bukit Gasing every Saturday morning ~

(This post was edited by Amanda85 on Nov 17, 2003, 6:54 PM)

1 2

View All