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CAN I LET MY MINPIN(BROWNIE) OUT BY HIMSELF







PIPIMOM
Canine Addict


Nov 1, 2004, 8:38 AM

Post #1 of 11 (2342 views)
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CAN I LET MY MINPIN(BROWNIE) OUT BY HIMSELF Can't Post

Dear Forum members



I see your advice. Is it wise to let my Brownie - 1 1/2 yr minpin (whom we adopted 6 months ago when his owner shifted to a condo) -to let him roam about. Brownie is a smart dog and few time before we adopted him, he was let out to roam and then he would return after two hours or so... Now we want to know if we should continue to let him do this habit.

Recently Brownie walked his own way back when we left him at a friend's house which was 3.8km away from our house not forgetting the trafic lights and busy 6 lanes.

I personally feel that I would not want him to go out as I do not want any more unforseen circumstances to happen to Brownie and I am not ready for another uncalled grief after my PiPI accident.

AT the same time, I also feel that I am inhibiting Brownie's "freedom" in not giving him the free run .

I am beginning to love him like I love PIPI - so before I decide to let him go (of course have to pray that he would come back)I seek advice from this forum for expert.

My question :

1. Is this the character of minpin? Want to run - and Brownie is a strong dog.. runs like horse or mousedeer.. fast ..

2. There is no way to follow him because heCrazy disappears very fast and when he is out in the open he just totally won't respond if we call him unlike at home he would be obedient. So should I let him go?

FEw time we had to cycle /go by car to follow and watch him from behind and when he saw us he "trotted" further.Frown



3. Will he be sad if I do not allow him to go out ?Frown

4. Is it safe ? - I am worried he might meet other strays .. like a few minutes ago we saw an unleased german shepherd running past our house (but the owner is in front in a car). I quickly pulled Brownie inside my house.. osshhhh.... close encounter!

Please give your advice.

Thank you.


minglmy
Puppycom Veteran


Nov 1, 2004, 6:21 PM

Post #2 of 11 (2324 views)
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Re: [PIPIMOM] CAN I LET MY MINPIN(BROWNIE) OUT BY HIMSELF [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi !

I think for a start you shd do more reading abt the miniature pinscher breed. I'm sure you have not done any research into this particular breed before .... hope the information abt the breed provides to you will be useful.

Introduction


Forget the image of toy dogs as fragile and in need of pampering when considering the Miniature Pinscher. This delicate-looking little dog has a constitution of steel and an impish character that can reduce the overbearing owner to tears of frustration, for he will rule the roost with a tiny iron paw if allowed to do so.


Unlike the Miniature Poodle, which is a scaled-down version of the Standard Poodle, the Min Pin is not a smaller version of anything, especially the much-larger Doberman Pinscher. Both may have descended from the German Pinscher, a medium-sized black and tan dog bred to control vermin in the barnyard, but there the relationship ends. The Doberman includes Rottweiler and perhaps the Black and Tan Terrier; the Min Pin reportedly came from crosses with breeds as diverse as the Dachshund1 and the Italian Greyhound.


Part of the confusion in origin comes from the word "pinscher," which is a descriptive term like "terrier" or "setter" that denotes the dog's method of working, not his heritage. In German, "pinscher" means "biter" and derives from the dog's habit of jumping on and fiercely biting its quarry. The German pinscher family includes the Affenpinscher, a toy breed with a wiry coat, and the schnauzers.1 The name may also be borrowed from the English "pincher," meaning "one who seizes or pinches."


The Min Pin is also not related to the Manchester Terrier in either the standard or toy sizes. The Manchester is an English breed; the Min Pin hails from Germany.


So what is the Min Pin? It is a diminutive dog with an elegant way of going, a spunky dog with a sense of humor, an energetic dog with a bouncy personality that brightens days and sometimes causes apoplexy in its owners. Bred to keep farm kitchens free of mice and rats, this little guy can be ferocious when necessary and scrappy on a whim.


In short, as breeders and owners say, the Min Pin is not for everyone.


The Miniature Pinscher ranked 23 in litters registered with the American Kennel Club with 7650 litters in 1993, up from 6889 litters the previous year. The breed also ranked 29 in individual registrations with 14,987 in 1993, up from 13,353 in 1992. The increase can be attributed to several factors, including the breed's perfect size for apartment dwelling and the saying among breeders and owners that, if this is the breed that captures your fancy, "you can't have just one."



Physical appearance.


The Miniature Pinscher ranges from 10-12.5 inches in height with the preferred size being 11-11.5 inches. Dogs shorter than 10 inches or taller than 12.5 inches are disqualified from the show ring. Males are square-bodied; females may be slightly longer than tall.


The whole picture of the Min Pin is one of refined elegance, both standing still and moving. The strong but not coarse head, slightly arched neck, level topline, and sleek, well-muscled body give the little dog the appearance of strength in a Lilliputian package. The coat is smooth, hard, straight, and lustrous in solid red, stag red (with black hairs intermingling), black-and-rust, or chocolate-and-rust. The rust markings are well-defined, not bleeding into the black or chocolate and are found on cheeks, lips, lower jaw, throat, lower half of forelegs, inside of hind legs and lower portion of hocks and feet, and in twin spots above the eyes and on the chest. Small spots of white not to exceed one-half inch in size are acceptable. Any other color or pattern is a disqualification, as is a thumb-print of black or chocolate on a rust leg. The thumb-print is associated with the Manchester Terrier and is prohibited in the Min Pin.


Min Pin ears are usually cropped2 but can be left natural. The tail is always docked.


The high-stepping gait of the Min Pin completes the picture of grace and style and reminds observers of the flashy gait of hackney horses bred to pull the carriages of upper class Europeans and southern gentlemen. Moderate shoulder angulation and good reach in front coupled with strong hindquarters lend to the naturally flamboyant trot.



Temperament


Min Pin temperament is described in the breed standard as "fearless animation, complete self-possession, and spirited presence." These qualities often lead to problems with unsuspecting first-time owners.


"This is not a lapdog breed," writes Michelle Lowell in Your Purebred Puppy. "He can be so much the temperamental tyrant when overly accommodated that spoiling is not recommended."


"You should find dynamite in a small package or something is wrong," according to a pamphlet from the Miniature Pinscher Club of America.


The Min Pin is curious, suspicious of strangers, vigorous, curious, inquisitive, funny, fearless, curious, energetic, and curious. He will escape from confinement whenever possible to satisfy his curiosity and indulge his need for activity.


Min Pin breeders recommend that buyers purchase an exercise pen with a lid for backyard respites as the tiny dog will leap out of a pen in the blink of an eye and can disappear before a human can react. The tiny dogs are so quick that they should never be allowed outside the yard unless carried or attached to a leash. He should also be watched whenever a door is opened, for he will take advantage of every opportunity to explore.


Although it is a tough and gingerly breed, the Min Pin cannot withstand the rough-and-tumble play of boisterous children. Even though he may bound from sofa to chair to floor and back again, the Min Pin is not sturdy enough for rough handling. However, he does well with older, well-behaved children.


The Min Pin may be the King of Toys, but he must learn from an early age that he is not King of the House. Walking on a leash, coming when called, and standing on a table are probably the most important lessons to be learned. Since obedience training is a must, the owner may as well put his time and effort to good use and work towards obedience titles. Shirley Meyers and Paula Lacker, both local Min Pin breeders, also train and compete in obedience classes. Meyers is working her champion bitch Charm towards a utility title; they have already earned a companion dog excellent, the second title in the triumvirate.


Firm, persistent, consistent, and gentle are the operative words in Min Pin training. No harsh corrections and no "He's so cute (or tiny), I can't bear to correct him," for both these extreme attitudes will result in disaster. Once the dog realizes he can't bluff you with his antics, he'll most likely come to enjoy the training time and the opportunity to please. On the other hand, the Miniature Pinscher Club of America offers this: "As typical of the Min Pin personality, the more a crowd laughs, the more he will mis-perform!" So don't opt for this breed unless you have a keen sense of comedy and can take a joke.


The Min Pin needs a room of his own to which he can be confined when he cannot be supervised. Since he can easily climb on furniture_ even tables and counters if he's determined to do so -- any small item that he may steal or choke on should be put away. This means no tubes of lip balm, pens and pencils, bowls of hard candy, children's toys, combs, paper clips, coins, etc. -- in short, anything that the dog can pick up and carry off.



Health and care


In spite of its tiny size and fine bones, the Min Pin is a hardy, healthy dog with few genetic problems. He is susceptible to generalized progressive retinal atrophy, an inherited eye abnormality that eventually causes blindness. However, he may suffer from unintentional rough handling of a child and should never be dropped, even from sofa-height, even though he might jump from the same height on his own.


Coat care is minimal. A brisk rubdown with a hand mitt or towel ensures a shiny coat. Frequent baths are not necessary and may dry the skin; instead, the dog can be wiped down with a washcloth dampened with warm water. Always make sure the dog is dry before an outdoor excursion.


As with other breeds, teeth should be kept clean and nails trimmed to avoid problems.


Because of its small size, bright attitude, and high-stepping gait, the Min Pin is a favorite of pet stores. At a recent dispersal of a commercial kennel, more than 50 Min Pins were sold. Obviously, anyone interested in raising puppies for money can fit many Min Pins in a small space. However, they cannot possibly give the puppies the attention they need and deserve in order to become well-adjusted family pets. Furthermore, small dogs raised in crates and cages without opportunity to walk on different surfaces, exposure to the sights and sounds of daily living, or basic housetraining is likely to be fearful of new experiences and difficult to teach appropriate defecation and urination habits.


A Min Pin purchased from a reputable and responsible breeder should be clean, well-socialized, and healthy. The breeder should advise the buyer on appropriate care and training and be available for assistance. All pet Min Pins should be spayed or neutered by agreement between breeder and buyer; breeding these tiny dogs is not an easy proposition, and only the best quality animals should join the gene pool.

cheers,
minglmy


minglmy
Puppycom Veteran


Nov 1, 2004, 6:30 PM

Post #3 of 11 (2317 views)
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Re: [PIPIMOM] CAN I LET MY MINPIN(BROWNIE) OUT BY HIMSELF [In reply to] Can't Post

As to answer to your questions in the post.... here u r :

1) You can read more abt the character of the breed in the above post which I have posted on all infos abt the minpins. Hope this provide you with more understanding abt your doggie.

2) Why in the 1st place you allow your minpin to roam about ? This is one of the BIGGEST WHY dogs is lost, kidnapped or even run down by cars ! Minpin is a small curious creature they will follow their nose and eyes and not listen by their ears ! they will run when opportunity arise !

3) He will NOT be sad if he cannot go out... since I pressume you are staying in the garden... (coz the original owner gave him to u when he move to condo) I wud strongly advise you to let your minpin play inside the house or inside an enclosed gated garden. They are not a doberman so they definitely do not need a very big place for them to run about. Alternatively you can spend more time playing with your minpin or buy some chewy bones, squeaky toys for your doggie

4. Of course its not safe to let your minpin roam about lar .... all things can happen to your doggie and worst still other more dominant strays might wanna pick a fight with him. At the end of the day, u tell me strays will win or your minpin lar...size also lose out to strays liao !

Being a dog owner is not easy one lar... have to be responsible all the time, as a minpin owner lagi susah coz they can be so pat kua most of the time also ! hehehe... i know i got 2 of em !

cheers,
minglmy


kelsey
K9 Maniac


Nov 1, 2004, 7:25 PM

Post #4 of 11 (2309 views)
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Re: [PIPIMOM] CAN I LET MY MINPIN(BROWNIE) OUT BY HIMSELF [In reply to] Can't Post

pipi,

i thought of owing a min pin before but i got a GR instead. min pin are big dogs in a small body! they have tons of energy.

i suggest u don't let him roam around, yes i agree this is a good way for the dog to get run down and get "dog-napped".

he has lost sense of respect for you and ur family, he is not responding to your commands, he is also thinks that being outside, the command don't count.

i suggest you take the time to leash him and walk him. enforce command when u r out, practice in ur own garden, walk around and stop and give the sit command, see if he sits or not. don't think you are inhibiting his freedom:) dogs need a master, they don't want to think on their own and shape their life. of course they like freedom but it also have to have boundaries.

ur min pin isn't going to leave very long if u let him run around the street like a stray, he is subject to be runned over, stolen, infected with disease, not mentioning also being harass by other people and other big dogs.

keep him in the house and walk him out on a leash.

hope this helps!


hunter
Ultra ALPHA


Nov 1, 2004, 9:57 PM

Post #5 of 11 (2294 views)
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Re: [PIPIMOM] CAN I LET MY MINPIN(BROWNIE) OUT BY HIMSELF [In reply to] Can't Post

hi pipimom

just to add, if your dog is allowed to be roam about, you not only risk

1. Brownie got lost, unable to find the way back (especially when it rains)

2. Brownie picked up by strangers and kept as their own dog at home

3. Brownie run over by cars

4. Brownie being throwed stones or other horrible acts by dog haters

5. Brownie peeing and pooing at the neighbourhood. Causing troubles and annoyance to others. Won't be fair to the non-dog owners. (that is why there is so many rules impounded on us dog owners to get dog license. Because of irresponsible acts of people allowing their dogs to be a menace in the neighbourhood)

6 If not neutered, Brownie might be out mating with stray dogs on heat and produce homeless puppies. This is one point that many people forget. And this is also part of the lesson of being a responsible dog owner.

and 7.this is important, the dogcatchers has the right to catch your dog - with or without license. The dog pound is a horrible place, so pls do think twice before letting your dog out.

Your dog will not be unhappy if you don't let him out. He will be equally happy if you walk with him on the evenings or mornings on leash.

So pls do reconsider. It's not only for your dog's safety, but also to keep up the good impression of dogs owners like you and me so that they get more well accepted by the community.

hope this helped!


PIPIMOM
Canine Addict


Nov 2, 2004, 5:28 AM

Post #6 of 11 (2276 views)
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Re: [minglmy] CAN I LET MY MINPIN(BROWNIE) OUT BY HIMSELF [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Minglmy

Thank you for the prompt reply.

1. I have actually gone to the website on Minpin - usa based. Thank you for the extra information. Today I sent Brownie to see the vet(yesterday he bit a baby snake - 1 ft long - so to check on Brownie ) and I asked his opinion too. He said it is better not to let Brownie out on his own.

Brownie - just this week had escaped three times.. when we took him for morning walks.. and the grass was slippery and i slipped and he ran off.. we went to look search for him and drove the car and found him near my house and opened the car door and he hopped in.. What a relief...

Every morning, 7.30am and 6.00pm we took him for his walk.. He is full of tricks and I must be extra careful.. he would sometimes wriggle his collar and harness and slipped out of it...

So far after we took him in, he had run off when the gate was opened even a little bit and he dashed off and then at least two hours he would come back.. but that was suspense.

I shall take your advice .. not to even let him try to go out on his own..

NB: My neighbour who knows Brownie very well suggested that we let him off at 6.00am on Sundays.. but then I do not think it is safe...

Thank you for your timely advice...

PIPI MOM


PIPIMOM
Canine Addict


Nov 2, 2004, 5:42 AM

Post #7 of 11 (2274 views)
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Re: [kelsey] CAN I LET MY MINPIN(BROWNIE) OUT BY HIMSELF [In reply to] Can't Post

Kesley

Thank you for your advice. I think the morning and evenign walks with Brownie is not sufficient for Brownie... that is why sometimes the urge for him to go out is there...

I would not want to let him out alone. You are right, he must adhere to my rules .. after all it is really been a great sacrifice to bring him to my home. I lost my PIPI 10mth pup when PIPI followed Brownie to the busy road and the accident happen..(My full story in Pet world mag : sep .oct issue - My tribute to PIPI ) Though I forgiven Brownie, I don't want the same thing to happen ...But one thing about this brownie.. he knows his directions.. he is streetwise .. in my post at chit chat.. i wrote few days ago that Brownie walked 3.8km back pass highways and byways when we left him at a friend's house to care because we had to balik kampung.

I just learn that the preivous owner did let Brownie roam around when he was even a pup... so Brownie must have used to it...

I love Brownie very much and I would not want anything bad to happen to him. His tons of energy will pull us instead of we pull him.. so I have already bought a better harness body ..

I will take your good advice and will start to instill good disciplicenry actions and lessons to him. I want to have him as long as possible.

thank you.


PIPIMOM
Canine Addict


Nov 2, 2004, 5:51 AM

Post #8 of 11 (2272 views)
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Re: [hunter] CAN I LET MY MINPIN(BROWNIE) OUT BY HIMSELF [In reply to] Can't Post

Hunter

Thank you for the timely advice. It had helped me to weigh the pros and cons and after consideration, I would not want to let Brownie out. Opinions from responsible dog owners really helps.

I shudder when I think of all the points that you outlined.. and always had to wait in "suspense" when Brownie dashed out of the gate even at the slightest open by visitors..

I shall be more extra careful not to let him out...

Even though Brownie had escaped to have free run by himself.. he is very streetwise and will come back in three hours time.. but still the uneasy feeling is there until he returns.

My neighbour who knows Brownie very well thinks it is alright to let him out but I know this cannot go on because of his own safety..I hope brownie will be satisifed with his morning and evenign walks which we take him out at 7.30am and 6.00pm

Thank you again for your re-affirmation.

Regards to your groovy furkid...

pipimom

had


tgs006
Novice

Nov 2, 2004, 5:58 AM

Post #9 of 11 (2263 views)
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Re: [PIPIMOM] CAN I LET MY MINPIN(BROWNIE) OUT BY HIMSELF [In reply to] Can't Post

Every year many unwanted puppies are surrenderred to paws and spca because many Malaysian simply let their dogs roam free and end up with unwanted litters. We hope you will not be one of them.


PIPIMOM
Canine Addict


Nov 2, 2004, 6:25 AM

Post #10 of 11 (2255 views)
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Re: [tgs006] CAN I LET MY MINPIN(BROWNIE) OUT BY HIMSELF [In reply to] Can't Post

TGS006

Thank you for the short reply. Brownie is just too naughty .. sometimes so adorable and sometimes.. "little devil". I have to asked forum members because some neighbours advised that it shd be okay to let him go out but I told them that I want to consider after going to minpin website (to find out more about Brownie because we adopted him only 5 1/2 mths ago.. ) and finding out from forum members. I am glad I did and my decision is firm.. we shall not let him have his free run.

In fact his previous owner let him go out or sometimes I learnt.. Brownie dug a hole and escaped .. that is why he is so used to his old habits.

Even though he had his morning and evening walks.. macam tak cukup.. he will dashed out at the slightest oppotunity..

But My brownie escaped this week and we took the car to search for him and he jumped into the car when we opened the car door.He escaped when I was holding the leash and fall on the slippery grass and he dashed away...

Another time.. he wriggle out his collar and harness and ran off.. and we had to ride bicyle to search for him..

Earlier he escaped from a friend's house whom we left to care when we had to balik kampung.. he escaped when the gate was opened and walked back passed highways 6 lanes and 3.8km to sit in front of my gate.. I recd the news at my hometown and luckily my neighbour had the key to my gate and opened for brown to come in..

yesterday Brownie bit a baby snake head and killed the snake..

Brownie had been in action these whole week and my heart had dropped many times just because of Brownie..

Thank you again for your advice and many other people too..I will keep all the points and will look after Brownie closely and not let him run away..

Best regards ..Pipi's mom


PIPIMOM
Canine Addict


Nov 12, 2004, 12:53 AM

Post #11 of 11 (2200 views)
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Re: [PIPIMOM] CAN I LET MY MINPIN(BROWNIE) OUT BY HIMSELF [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello everyone who had given me your comments

It has been 2 weeks since I asked about letting Brownie out. Situation had improved and I strictly told Brownie that he had to be on leash and must follow new rules. Though he struggled to run fast on leash I commanded him to be cool and relax. One time, the leash came out but surprisingly he did not "escape".( Maybe he had Shadow - my neighbour's pub was there.)

I also bought him many new squeeky toys and he loves it. I put it on a shelf and he chooses them as he likes.

I told Brownie's god-ma and god-pa that we should not let Brownie out by himself as I deem all dog lovers' advice from puppycom is more wise.

They have agreed.

Thank you everyone so much for your frank comments.

PIPIMOM

 
 




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