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Hello Ant.







Zazi
Novice

Sep 29, 2004, 9:24 PM

Post #1 of 18 (2448 views)
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Hello Ant. Can't Post

  

Wink Ant,... short for antony/antagonist/antagonized/anti/antonym?



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I think Mr Manjeet has responded well. We have been bugging PAWS to have an AGM which they have promised now to have which is a good thing.


Mr Manjeet came out guns blazing with big words that no one understands... But luckily, he remains convinced that there are people out there in cyberspace in the shadows trying to undermine him. Given that this is what he thinks, i am not surprised that he came out guns blazing. I might have done the same thing but luckily for me, no one is trying to undermine me. Mr Manjeet has also said that he will call an AGM. He didn't say when, but he said that he would so we can now hold him to his word. I have great faith that someone who is noble enough to call an AGM knowing that he or she will inevitably get voted off the committe will make good on his promises. Think about it... It takes a really big person to be this up front about things.



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But it appears that some people out there want more and have initiated a so-called "poll."

Correct. There are people who want more. I am one of them. I am not ashamed of it. I want more for PAWS then a mere existence. I want for PAWS to thrive and I am prepared to help in helping it to thrive. If you are satisfied with less, that is your problem.




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This really sounds like a joke to me because a "poll" like this is very manipulative.

You call it manipulation. I call it democratisation.... but we all know how dangerous democracy can be don't we? I mean.... it could lead to other dangerous situations where the majority rules.... heaven forfend that we should all demand equality before the law!




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Why are we trying to antagonise the PAWS committee?

Because they have let things slip. Things could be better. Everyone admits it. Even Mr. Manjeet admitted it.




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How is this going to help the animals?

Em .... By making things better? DUH! Sly




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Shouldn't we be trying to win thier hearts instead of making hate us?

Oh... you mean.... like ....shouldn't we be trying to manipulate them into doing what we think is right instead of being honest? Well i guess that's an option, but it's really not my style.




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It's very clear to me that there are OTHER MOTIVES and AGENDAS at work here - not just the purported one to save the animals.


You are right though... There is an over riding agenda that is bigger than just saving a few animals. That agenda is to do some real heart and soul work and make a difference with our own lives. You are right. Our motives are not purely altruistic. We all stand to gain because we all know how good it feels to do something good, if we don't get paid for it, it feels even better! So yes, we're all secretly foaming at the mouth to get into PAWS because of all the feel good work that needs to be done. I wonder what Mr. Manjeet was referring to when he said that there was no mileage gained in staying on the PAWS committee.




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Yes, Mr Manjeet, I agree with you fully. If those of us who aren't happy with the way PAWS has been run so far - and I am clearly one of them - we should start thinking about starting another animal shelter.

Heaven knows that Malaysia needs as many as we can get!


I agree with the both ofyou. In fact, if you've been paying attention to some of the other posts in this forum you may have read mine... If you're interested in helping start another shelter please do feel free to email me and maybe you and some of the other like minded people that have expressed a view very similar to your own can get together and pool our resources. Maybe you can convince Mr. Manjeet to come along, though there probably won't be much mileage to be gained from this new shelter either.


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Let me also say that I think as non members of PAWS, some of the things that some people are trying to do is really unfair to the society, especially if we are non members.


Ant, if there was a society, there would have been an AGM every year since 1997 regardless of how many people showed up.





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Whether we like it or not, we have no business poking into thiers! At best, we can only write letters of concern to the President.



Gone are the days of letter writing Ant, we now have a thing called email, which is considered 'Public Domain' unless you expressly state other wise.





Maybe Ant would care to append a name to his post just like Mr. Manjeet has...
________________________________________
PLEASE SIGN THE SPCA PETITION
www.spca.org.my
Every Signature counts!!

(This post was edited by Zazi on Sep 29, 2004, 9:32 PM)


ant
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 12:52 AM

Post #2 of 18 (2403 views)
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Re: [Zazi] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Zazi,

I decided to reply your post as you seemed to have taken my note seriously enough to respond positively. (Though, some of your remarks, I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not)



First, you seem to be suspicious of my name. Don't be; I really don't have time to play games with you or anyone on this list.



I am NOT a supporter of Mr Manjeet and I will not waste my time trying to defend him. From the way he writes, I can clearly see that he is perfectly capable in supporting himself. And he seems to be doing a good job of it too. So, if you don't mind, I do not wish to comment about him.



I am nobody to judge your intentions of wanting to help PAWS but in all sincerity, I feel that if anyone wants to help PAWS, they should not go on a collision course with them. Such a move serves no one and it will be the animals who suffer at the end.



I think the point about PAWS needing much improvement had been made. And I think that Mr Manjeet on behalf of PAWS to have conceded this is very gracious of not only him but the committee as well.

(Even you mentioned that Manjeet admitted the mistakes) And I think we should respect him for it even if we don't agree with everything he or the PAWS committee says.

But what I can't understand is that some people are not satisfied with this and seem to want blood! I think one needs to wisen up and find a point of building bridges rather than burning them in order to work together for the betterment of PAWS.

Judging from some of the relentless arguments in the varioius posts, it is clear that some people have a personal vendetta to score with certain persons in the committee of PAWS rather than to fight for the real cause.

I want PAWS to improve but NOT at the extent of helping certain individuals in the group to settle their personal scores, get employment with the society, become President, etc.

Regarding the "polls", I don't think anyone needs to be ashamed about it.

But in all reality, it will never qualify to be a real "Poll" and it will only serve certain narrowminded interests of some.

If there is was a real poll or gauge that is sincerely interested to find out how people felt about PAWS, then people would be clearly welcoming of my response for example instead of trying to discredit me or run my down shamelessly like some Dodo did with his childish and baseless allegations against my post which I wrote in all sincerity.

His or her paranoid email just went to underscore my argument that some people are not necessarily out there for the betterment of PAWS = animals but for reasons better known to themselves.

I make it a practice not to waste my time with such hogwash that is why I chose to respond to you instead.

I didn't know that you are trying to start another shelter. This is great and I think is THE BEST answer to PAWS. And I am very glad that you are willing to welcome the expertise of PAWS in your organisation. This is the right way to go about it as we all as animal lovers have a bigger war to fight against non animal lovers at large than PAWS.

Do we all realise this? Seeing some of the posts, I seriously wonder.

My policy is we should be helping other animal shelters in whatever way we can - not fight against them because we are really outnumbered.

Finally, by all means let's continue giving our point of view to PAWS and Mr Manjeet via email. But please, let's refrain from making below the belt statements, unfair statements and untruths.

You mentioned that PAWS hasn't had an AGM since donkey's years. Well, we all know that and PAWS has admitted it. We just have to wait and trust in good faith in the next few weeks and months for PAWS to call for a proper AGM.

By the way, I will not be able to attend it when that time comes because I am not a member of PAWS.

This is a reality that we have to face. Whether we like it or not, only members of the society are legally allowed to enter. This may be unfair to many of us but that is how the law goes.

So it will be up to the official members of PAWS to bring up the issue/issues at the AGM. That is why I have been trying to point out that some of the things that "we" have been doing is also illegal.

We may not like it but that is how the law goes. (If anyone knows otherwise, then please do correct me here because that will be useful info for me, too)

From my experience with societies, every society has the right of taking in members and refusing entry as well. (Unless PAWS constitution says otherwise)

If donors are not happy with this, then just STOP donating to the soceity. That is the only way that you can express yourselves. But you can't do something that you have no right to when you are a non member.

Maybe as Mr Manjeet pointed out, the mistake is also with us. We should've become members long ago before we started fighting PAWS where we would now be able to put in our democrative right in voting for the people we think should best run PAWS.

Zazi, as for your remark that PAWS should have gone ahead with the handful of committee members, you are mistaken here because in every society you need a certain quorum to have a proper meeting and one can have a meeting as one likes.

I hope these comments of mine gives you an accurate picture of what I meant and where I stand in all of this.

Just because I don't agree with all of the anti PAWS views doesn't mean that I don't want to animal shelter to come out tops in animal care.

ant


msdhillon
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 2:36 AM

Post #3 of 18 (2374 views)
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Re: [ant] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Ant/Zazi

I have taken note of your respective postings and I respect what you have to say.

For all those who care to take note I am not ANT. I have a pretty good idea of who ant is and I have respect for the way he has got on with his life and what he has achieved with it and his care and concern for his dogs.

I am very concerned that an otherwise interesting debate has got mired in obscenities and that the webmaster/moderator has made no efforts to curtail such unhealthy activities. I really have said all that needs to be said and will now get on with the business of Paws' AGMs/EGMs and members of the society will get to hear of the dates from the secretary.

I have nothing to say about those who are so challenged that they find it difficult to understand what I write. And one other thing - I do not use aliases or pseudonyms. I stick to my own name.

Manjeet


(This post was edited by msdhillon on Sep 30, 2004, 2:38 AM)


ant
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 3:09 AM

Post #4 of 18 (2350 views)
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Re: [msdhillon] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Mr Manjeet,

Thank you for your reply and your kind words about me. This is the very first time that I am communicating with you via email.

Thank you for appreciating the concerns that I have expressed regarding PAWS and for the many dignified responses that you have given in this list - even though I realise that you are not required to except at your AGM.

Although we don't really know each other, may I say that I have a lot of respect for you as well, particularly in applauding you how you vehemently and passionately spoke up at the DBKL some years ago for the right of dog lovers to have more than two dogs in their homes when the authorities were considering to drastically limit the numbers.

Your speech clearly made an impact which subsequently made the DBKL to relax its views on such a bylaw.

Though our views may differ at times, I have FULL CONFIDENCE in your ability to handle the upcoming AGM to resolve the problems with PAWS.

As a founder member of PAWS and one of the very first volunteers and staff at your society, may I congratulate you on how you have seen PAWS through over the years - in good times as well as bad.

(I realise that this info may be a bombshell to some)

I hope to be able to help out wheverever I can sometime after the Elections.

In the meantime, keep up your good work - you and your team.

ant

Herein ends my correspondence on this subject


Zazi
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 3:11 AM

Post #5 of 18 (2350 views)
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Re: [ant] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually when i read your first post, I laughed.

Don't confuse suspicion with bemused curiosity.

If you don't wish to comment on Mr.Manjeet, then how come you keep on commenting? But hey... It's a free forum. Knock yourself out.

The only people on 'a collision course' with PAWS are the animals. Luckily we can all walk away from PAWS any time we like.

So you would, deny presidency to someone who could make a diference just because they MAY have ulterior motives?Personally, I wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face.

As for you referring to what my fellow forum members have written as 'HOGWASH' and then singling out my post as being worthy of a response from you... Give me a break! Divide and conquer is not going to work. We're all very together on this issue... and i don't think that ANY thing that has been said amounts to hogwash.

I think i speak for quite a few people when i say, as i bang my head against the proverbial wall that no one has any ulterior motives! No one has any ulterior motives. No one has ANY ulterior motives....

A certain quorom? What is a quorom? Hey.... wait a minute, you and Mr. Manjeet must have the same latin dictionary or something... Quorum....

Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules.

Thats latin for:

If i were you, i wouldn't walk in front of any catapaults.

Pirate
________________________________________
PLEASE SIGN THE SPCA PETITION
www.spca.org.my
Every Signature counts!!

(This post was edited by Zazi on Sep 30, 2004, 3:14 AM)


Zazi
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 3:16 AM

Post #6 of 18 (2342 views)
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Re: [ant] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue
________________________________________
PLEASE SIGN THE SPCA PETITION
www.spca.org.my
Every Signature counts!!


LS
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 3:23 AM

Post #7 of 18 (2335 views)
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Re: [Zazi] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

It appear to me all this fight to have a new PAWs committee involved lots of emotions. Perhaps there is someone out there that is good in usage of words to move people's emotion , so much so that many have learn not to think logically. emotions have been used rather then a clear mind.

I also wander why in the first place all this so call anti PAWs supporters have not even consider joining as members years ago.

I don't blame some of the supporters that have been roped in my C.Hor . They have been given only the picture from her recordings. It is good Manjeet responded to this postings . At least now there is 2 pictures to see. As to which picture one chooses to believe in it is all up to the individuals.

I guess you might be hitting against me as you have hit at Ant. Why? cause you are a Anti PAWs supporter and you will hit anyone that you yourself felt is not on your camp.

Does this forum says that you must only be a anti PAWs supporter to post? If so please give us the link.

A suggestion here... why not start another website Zazi and only accept members that is anti PAWs. Remember any society have the rights to accept and not accept members. So start your own website and allow only members that you feel should be members. If you can't find one that meets your expectations than just reject membership. Then we can start a new poll that goes like this....

101. FORUM NICK OR NAME: Me
INTEREST: Am interested to be an Anti
POSITION: Applied for life membership in ZAZI forum but membership rejected.
PLEDGE: Volunteer to promote this forum. Have donated in kind, and am prepared to give more time to improve operations. Run projects like this.


ant
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 3:27 AM

Post #8 of 18 (2330 views)
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Re: [Zazi] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Zazi,

How terribly disappointing your reply. Obviously, your email to me was to lure me into an argument so that you can distort what I say and make fun of me.

To be honest, I don't have time for such nonsense.

I was hoping for a more matured and sincere response.

The mistake was not yours but mine to reply.

Please find someone else to entertain you.

ant


LS
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 3:29 AM

Post #9 of 18 (2327 views)
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Re: [LS] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

By the way Zazi, I know you will reply soon .. after all I am sure you want the last words just to win.

So let you winlah.


Zazi
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 3:29 AM

Post #10 of 18 (2327 views)
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Re: [LS] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

Shocked i'm anti PAWS? well that is news to me....
________________________________________
PLEASE SIGN THE SPCA PETITION
www.spca.org.my
Every Signature counts!!


LS
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 3:43 AM

Post #11 of 18 (2311 views)
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Re: [Zazi] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

Gotcha Zazi you are the last ..so you do want to win... or am I the last to post in this forum?

If so I WIN!


Zazi
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 3:57 AM

Post #12 of 18 (2300 views)
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Re: [LS] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

listen.... what are you on about? what's your problem with me LS? i'm not anti paws. i never have been. maybe you should re read my posts and try and understand them.... go ahead have another last post and win...
________________________________________
PLEASE SIGN THE SPCA PETITION
www.spca.org.my
Every Signature counts!!


pei02
Enthusiast


Sep 30, 2004, 5:15 AM

Post #13 of 18 (2273 views)
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Re: [Zazi] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

Nevermind la I b the WINNER!!!Cool

I think LS is a kid, not mature enough


LS
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 6:04 AM

Post #14 of 18 (2259 views)
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Re: [Zazi] Hello Ant. [In reply to] Can't Post

Your wish is my command.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 30, 2004, 8:48 AM

Post #15 of 18 (2237 views)
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Re: [Zazi] [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ...

It is hard for someone bent on behaving like a spoilt & petulant child to read or understand ... we can either humour or ignore them ... and then after a while, like most pains ... they go away and play with matches or something ... Tongue

Cheers


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 30, 2004, 8:58 AM)


LS
Novice

Sep 30, 2004, 5:00 PM

Post #16 of 18 (2206 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey you are right man, it's only a child's mind that is not political, money minded, corrupted, full of plots,etc

I think we should all be a child once again and enjoy life!


pei02
Enthusiast


Oct 1, 2004, 5:38 PM

Post #17 of 18 (2124 views)
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Re: [LS] [In reply to] Can't Post

You and Ant in the same member, perhaps same person, I think.Unimpressed


kathleen.tay
Canine Addict


Oct 1, 2004, 8:04 PM

Post #18 of 18 (2098 views)
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Re: [LS] [In reply to] Can't Post

LS,

Fren , lets get real ! I think you are just too free with nothing to do , that you are challenging people in every thread ! Get a life k !

You are not childish but immature and acting very uncivilised ! Please dont be a NATO agent OK .... ' NO Action Talk ONLY !
A Dog Never Lies About Love

 
 




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