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Home: Behavioral Problems: Barking & Growling Problems:
Overly Aggresive Pointer







BatdroxFudge
Novice

Apr 28, 2004, 6:53 PM

Post #1 of 8 (1965 views)
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Overly Aggresive Pointer Can't Post

when we were given out German Short Hair Pointer we were told the breed was an excellent alert dog. but they werent likely to be aggresive and etc. but our dog who is now 8 months old has issues with anyone on our front yard to the living room couch. we recently had a baby and he always puts himself inbetween anyone and the baby. if a guest moves toward him the pup is up all hair on his back raised growling. I know that this is him being protective of his family but its getting out of hand. he even ran out the door the other day to a neighborhood kid jumping and barking in his face. he didnt bite him but was being very mean. I dont know what to do anymore... I'm afraid to even let him out into our fenced in back yard just in case.

PLEASE HELP


-Queen-of-Self-Inflicted-Drama-


PSD
ALPHA


Apr 28, 2004, 8:02 PM

Post #2 of 8 (1960 views)
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Re: [BatdroxFudge] Overly Aggresive Pointer [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounded to me like a highly dominant dog with socialising issue. He needs a firm n fair handler to control him and start socialising him like crazy from now on. Otherwise what u are seing now at 8 months will just be alot more worse at 2 YO.

As for socialising method, I did mention firm n fair meaning when u have to correct a behaviour then u must correct it firmly and when he is showing u the calm self u reward him. Some sessions on OB will help greatly on the timing to correct and the time to praise n reward. Work in your own yard first without any strangers being there with rewards like food n play. Then when he can do simple OB like sit, heel and down u add distraction with a stranger from afar then slowly nearer session by session. This will take weeks when done correctly until the stranger can be outside your yard sitting without him barking and hackle up like crazy. The stranger should not be showing any threat like eye contact or fear, he should just act like the dog is not there and look into a diff direction. Then when he is calmer u can start to do it out of your own yard but in a place where there is no stranger first and then start to intro a stranger in the same manner until successful. U can do in as many different distraction as u can imagine but all without the stranger acting in a thretening manner. If the dog barks n hackle up like crazy the stranger is too near too soon so move him further away. Correct the dog for the barks n reward immediately when calm and go on with your OB.

Normally I would not suggest u to do it this way but since the dog is showing overly defense with raised hackles at this time and I assumed he hasnt any training nor properly socialised up to this point this is either done or gonna to be next to impossible to keep him the longer u delay. Also another assumption is that u may not have much idea of how to read n train a dog of such kind. For a start I would look for a good trainer with sound record in training dogs and engage him privately.

For me, this sounded like a very nice dog if put through the correct training.Smile Good luck

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Apr 28, 2004, 8:10 PM

Post #3 of 8 (1959 views)
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Re: [BatdroxFudge] Overly Aggresive Pointer [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ...

Pointers (most gundog breeds for that matter) do not tend towards aggressiveness ... Undue aggression would have defeated the purpose for which the Pointer was originally conceived and bred ... But the Pointer is an alert and ... very active breed ... very active.

Barking and jumping by themselves are not indications or signs of aggression ... a playful dog will both jump and bark ... bored dogs or dogs not sufficiently socialised will bark at anything that moves ...

I will certainly hesitate before labelling your Pointer aggressive ...

Also keep in mind that at 8 months, a dog starts to reach maturity ... his territorial & protection instincts kick in ... he starts becoming acutely aware of "his pack" ... and his position within his pack ... His pack being his family, namely all of you, including your baby.

All or some of the above, may be contributing to his current behaviour ...

Will suggest the following:

(A) Learn about the breed:

Do your research and find out all you can about your breed ... the breed temperament and the breed needs ... Pointers are active and require plenty of exercise ... Without sufficient exercise, they get bored and naughty ... The more you understand the breed and your dog - the easier things become.

(B) Learn about training & start to train:

Get a good training manual ...

And start a training programme for your dog. Pointers need focus and attention ... You also need to channel all his energy and proctective instincts ... Training your dog is the best way to do this ...

Once you teach your dog and ground the basic basic commands of Sit, Stay, Okay and No ... you will find it much easier to communicate your needs to the dog & control undesired behaviour ...

And just as important - training will also teach your dog to understand what you want and expect of him.

(C) Exercise:

Make sure your Pointer has enough exercise ... Just remember that at 8 months the dog is still growing, with soft bones ... so while, sufficient exercise is required - it should NOT be hard exercise like running fast for long distances or excessive jumping ...

(D) Socialisation: Learn about how to socialise your dog ... all dogs need to be properly socialised to make them calmer and more accepting of new people and other animals ... This is a very critical part of dog management. Its importance cannot be emphasised enough.

You can learn about the above, by doing a search on the Internet or on the threads in this forum (use the search function above).

As a start - check this thread on how to re-condition a dog and remove or minimise bad habits like growling etc ...

www.puppy.com.my/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=108691;search_string=reconditioning%20conditioning;#108691

Cheers Smile


PSD
ALPHA


Apr 28, 2004, 8:29 PM

Post #4 of 8 (1958 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Overly Aggresive Pointer [In reply to] Can't Post

SK,

I think u should also take in the fact that this dog ran out of the gate into a non-familiar environment n jumping n barking a kid in the face. Normally I would agree that jumping n barking is for a play in a safe environment but when a dog jump n bark in an unfamiliar place and at the face means eye-contact is related to dominance. No? Just for discussion purpose.

The hackling up thing isnt a very nice sight too. But of course this may be indication of socialisation issues which I quite agree with u. What do u think?Smile

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Apr 28, 2004, 9:34 PM

Post #5 of 8 (1952 views)
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Re: [PSD] Overly Aggresive Pointer [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ...

Looks like we cross posted each other ...

" ... he even ran out the door the other day to a neighborhood kid jumping and barking in his face. he didnt bite him but was being very mean ..."

I guess the first thing I noted was that the poster said the dog was jumping & barking ... (not snarling or growling, and no mention of hackles) ...

Also, maybe I have a tighter definition of what is a "real or true" aggressive dog ...

Have seen too many dogs labelled aggressive (in Malaysia and elsewhere) when the dogs are actually not aggressive ... badly behaved maybe ... poorly reared or trained ... not properly socialised ... dominant even ... but not aggressive ...

For example: A poorly socialised or trained dog ... will jump and bark like crazy at practically anything ... so much so that people not familiar with dogs think the dog is aggressive or going to attack - when that is the last thing on the dog's mind ... Or a dominant dog will bark & growl at every other dog ...

Jumping and barking per se ... are not the usual signs of aggression or prelude to an attack ... An overtly aggressive dog or a dog that really intends harm, will have an entirely different body shape ...

An "real" aggressive or problem dog is almost always on a short fuse ... with minimal threshold of tolerance ... which is what makes them so dangerous ... And they will approach others with stealth and caution ... or show immediate aggression ... and then WHAM ...

As for a dog (not overtly aggressive) but wishing to exert dominance ... such a dog also often reverts to a posture that is more intense and poised ... Such a dog may exhibit many of the signs and signals (which people associate with aggression) ... On one end of the scale, the dog will raise itself to full height and tighten its posture and muscles ... on the other end of the scale, the dog may resort to raising hackles, snarling and growling ...

But the difference (to my mind) between issue of dominance and "real" aggression ... is again the threshold ... a dog wishing to dominate (but otherwise not aggressive) will give plenty of warnings and time for the other to back off ...

But for both aggression & dominance - I think, it is unlikely for the dog to be jumping around ...

Eye-contact ... yes, agree with that ... once a dog makes and holds eye-contact ... it's definitely time to watch out ...

Which is why I suspect that the Pointer is not overtly aggressive (badly behaved maybe) ... It's awfully hard for a jumping dog to be maintaining any serious eye contact ...

As for the hackling when someone approaches the baby ... Yes - that is a sign to be careful about ... in that situation, I suspect that the dog is ready to take offensive action ... but again ... I suspect, its more likely protection & territory rather than overt aggression ...

For sure, if the dog's warnings are ignored, the dog may bite ... but to me - that is more an issue of people not understanding dog behaviour - and not so much the dog itself ... In such a case, proper socialisation and training will likely minimise the potential for accidental harm ...

What remains very important to me is that the dog is contuing to give ample warning ... With true aggressive and real problem dogs, there is often no warning or a very minimal threshold of warning ...

With a dog that still gives warning, then as you posted - proper rearing, training and socialisation will help manage the issue.

Cheers Smile




(This post was edited by surchinmy on Apr 28, 2004, 9:45 PM)


boon
Doggyman


Apr 29, 2004, 9:51 PM

Post #6 of 8 (1941 views)
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Re: [BatdroxFudge] Overly Aggresive Pointer [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

any more updates......available for adoption ? lovely pup.......

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


BatdroxFudge
Novice

May 2, 2004, 6:48 PM

Post #7 of 8 (1927 views)
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Re: [PSD] Overly Aggresive Pointer [In reply to] Can't Post

Our dog is very obident dog. He knows and responds to sit, sit-stay,stay,lay down,roll over and give paw. Batty is a great dog and I have NO intention of getting rid of him. He has a home for LIFE at my house. The only problem I have with him is this growling and barking at guests and straingers. He alerts us to any noise near the doors and is always checking on everyone in the house. Just when anyone comes over he is skiddish and mean. We have always had people come over and even had social gathering at the house and he was fine. Playing and laying with company. Just latley in the last month or two he has gotten meaner when people are around the house or even outside. But I will try the suggestions listed. thank you.


-Queen-of-Self-Inflicted-Drama-


PSD
ALPHA


May 10, 2004, 7:07 PM

Post #8 of 8 (1899 views)
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Re: [BatdroxFudge] Overly Aggresive Pointer [In reply to] Can't Post

BatdroxFudge,

Its definately good news if he knows OB. The dog sounded like he is starting to tap into his "defense drive" maturity - something the protection trainer should know. But as a disclaimer, it will be impossible for me to be 100% certain based on description alone without seing the dog. I could at best try to see best from your description alone.

The dog knowing OB is a great step ahead. Now u can just continue doing your OB and do the stranger distraction as described earlier. After u have successfully controlled Batty from acting agitated with the stranger until he is just sitting outside your gate looking away from the dog, u can do the same excercise in a field devoid of people at first and go back to basic with your OB session like sit, down, heel, stay, roll over n suchs. Then introduce the stranger from a distance and work him slowly session by session closer. By the word session I meant it as a session should be about 15 - 20 mins long and between sessions should not be shorter than 4 hours apart and keep the dog kenneled at least 1 hour before the session and 1 hour after the session.

It will help greatly once the dog can do all those under controlled all the times to varies the stranger and later maybe 2 or 3 stranger talking and laughing loud to each other. Once that is under controlled then u can intro the stranger once in a while look at the dog....not aggressively mind u. just normal look. The more distraction patern the more reliable the dog will be. It is up to your imagination and how much u r willing to put the work into getting Batty social ready.Smile

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

 
 




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