I thk the above r norms, I have heard of exception cases like when police k9 switching handlers & this k9 will still bond wt the new handler after a while even though he/she might have been wt the old handler from young. Maybe the key lies wt the feeding, playing & working together for a considerable period of time will make the k9 feel that they r member of the pack...!

BTW wildgunsr, have U ever oned a GSD b4 ? , could U tell us what attract U to workingline GSD in the 1st place ? maybe U can pose query like ur exoected puppy's pedigree, bloodlines, temperament etc on this board, I'm sure there will be a few member on board who can offer their valuable advice...!

So U currently owned 2 workingline GSD ? so where did U get ur workingline GSD . .? ?
====================================================== 'I've owned' la fren...now no more. The pedigree is somewhere in my house if not already thrown away, as these dogs were kept more than 10 years back.

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Wht I look for in GSD is KKL1 for temperament & working drv ! ================================================== Exactly!!!


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Of course there r difference ! ! , every individual dog temperament is difference, take for example if we were to compare the working GSD from DDR wt Czech, well generally speaking the Czech line should be harder & have more rank issue but of course they r exception to the rule . . . that is why serious breeders study bloodline.....so when they want a certain trait to bring in to their breeding program, they will know which dog bloodline to look for....!
==================================================== Still doesn't explain the diff. bet. pedigree and bloodline

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Well when U go to pick up ur pup just remember not to choose the alpha pup , ok ! and as for intelligence to choose its prey . . . .well the key to this is socialisation & training ...! Basically workingline GSD is a natural good guard dog with or w/o Protection training . . . so as long we dun screw up its training , they should do just fine !
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Sorry to ask this but r U planning to start a small kennel or breeding program....? ... Well first of all do u know serious workingline breeder normally will look for the most dominant dog/bitch with serious working drv for their breeding program...but U did not, ...& secondly will U be thinking of training the dog up to at least ScH 1 or even just BH level so that U will be able to evaluate his working & breeding potential ...? ...I'm not discorouging U here, but just so U know being a breeder require a life long of dedication & effort and this is especially true if U wanna be a workingline GSD breeder ...!
====================================================== No need to apologise mate. No I'm not ready to start a kennel, as the resources and commitment need is a 'don't pray pray' stage. Thus, not now. Maybe later when I'm more enept with the breed.

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Well that's the spirit ! . . . research & read as much as possible , & if there is anything u wanna ask maybe u can pose ur query in this board so that other members who know may be able to help U , this way everybody will be able to share & learn at the same time...!
===================================================== Thanks for the encouragement

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"Ed Frawley is one tough no nonsense dude."
YES..! but he is also a "Business Man"...!
====================================================== I kinda sensed that as well....

BTW U can e-mail at : ============================================= You've got mail!!


Regards Wildgunsr@puppy.com.my

"I don't ask for much just one with sire and dam with a Koerklasse I, VA, IPO, FH, PSP II, SchH III, and ZPr. "

"As for temperament, dominant dogs are a big no no, a hard dog with sufficient drives. And the intelligence to know that not every running/moving object is a prey. Only strike on command. Basically I want a guard/protection dog."

The great one has spoken.

You said all the keywords man, observation, a keen eye, guestimation from parents...all these when selecting a puppy. what bout when selecting a dog?

When I do get one, can I call upon any of you "PSD, Azman and Polluxx" to help me test/select? Seriously, what kind of eye does this Apek has lah? Besides your typical china apek eyes (in fact, i think they have nicer eyes)?

What are the chances of the breeder/trainer letting you make a copy of the pedigree for you to do some research? Anybody can PM me to tell me where I can find excellent breeders that won't really mind me.

heck I'm gonna ask anyway, What's the normal budget for a well bred working GSD?

Who? Where??

When selecting puppy do puppy test, when selecting dog do dog test loh! OK! seriously, I don't know what you are really looking for. Different types of dog test for diffrent situation. In order not to go too far ahead I would generalise that we want to see confidence in a dog, good nerve and temprement and clear headedness. React only under threat. When you are into training then you will see it and knows what I mean.

Who is the apek you mean? Me? You test before you buy not buy then test. I think you terbalik liao.

Good breeder tells you the line(not that everyone know how to appreciate) Sometimes they advertise on their site or such. Let say if you do come to me as a buyer asking for a whole bunch of papers. I would say thank you very much. All my pups are already sold.....pun intended. Reason being
1) do your research and by referal of another of this breeder before you approach him you should already have some basic knowledge of him.
2) do your own study and decide if you have the confidence on a breeder before approaching him
3) have a sincere conversation to ask for anything you don't understand
4) never sound like you don't trust or doubtful of their lines.
Remember, good breeder breeds out of passion for the breed. Money is not the most important thing for him. He don't have to make that sale and believe me if he sense any doubts or not sure of anyone, he won't be selling.

Kowpa does have his points. All in the eye of the beholder. You must decide if you want to spend 100K on a kick ass dog or 1K for a mongrel? All I can tell you is that show dogs puppies go for 1800-2500 as a general market price. Working dogs all depends on the drives.

Modest pulak... ]

For selecting puppy I only know of several test i.e

1. The curiousity of the pup when you arrive, running to and investigating the new person
2. The pinch test
3. The seperation test
4. The loud noise test
5. The prey test
6. Anymore??

Apek = me lahhhhhh.... . Obviously do test before buy mah What I meant was would any of you guys be willing to accompany me when requested upon after i 'set my eye' on a pup/dog, to give some opinions.

..... do bear wt me coz I'm a bit confused here...;
a.) if U R looking for a pup, well maybe U can test for the drv & instinct , but temperament & soundness of the dog develops over time as he/she grow and in this case environment & how she is raised plays a very important part in her development...!


b.) and if R U looking for a trained dog who can be a good guard dog...? ? how will U define the he/she is the Right dog, . . . . The way I see it, it is thru rearing, training & playing that u get ur "RIGHT" dog, in my case I believe if I can Bond with my dog then he/she is my right dog..... I dun thk we will be able to purchase that...! ! Wht do U think ? ?

BTW I thk PSD got a point , not all breeders care where their litter goes to ? Breeder who screened their potential buyer r those who r concerned & care for their breed, they definitely dun wan their pups to land in the wrong hand....and this more so for working GSD breeder who should be more discerning when it comes to screening their pup's buyer ! coz workingline GSD is definitely not suitable for everybody.... Still I believe , IF... U thru ur query & discusssion can forge a relationship with the breeder, I m sure he should have no problem selling his pup to U. And as for testing for a grown dog , well if U can find a good breeder I m sure he will definitely be able to tell U abt the pro & con of the dog that take ur fancy , also should be able to offer his advice & guide U along....after all it is his own dog & should know better than any other ppl... . . . this is much better than getting any old 'Apek' to follow & help U to choose la..!

By asking the breeder la of course ! unless U ask him w/o doing any research then of course he will be angry for wasting his time...! Anyway I'm sure . . .any breeder worth his salt will not mind were U to ask to take a look at the parents pedigree ? If they do mind walk away....simple as that...! At least I will.... ..!

Simply terms, I want a guard dog. More complicated terms, that is the EXACT reason why I'm leaving my options open. If I do get a pup, I can ensure its temperament & soundness through proper developement and try my level best to train it to be an excellent guard/protection dog. If i get an adult dog, I'll have to rely 90% on what the breeder/trainer tells me...if he's unscrupolous then I had it lah. I would define the 'right' dog is one that knows where it stands in the family, it's duties and responsibilities. The rest of the 10% or so, would be through my observation and what I learn letter about the dog if I do get it.

Exactly, therefore finding a breeder who I'm comfortable with is tough. I'm choosy and picky, if I'm getting a working GSD I wanna be sure, I'm getting the best that's available before committing. . This makes this an extremely patient journey. I don't want a business man, but it must be noted that a transaction definitely involves money, I rather have a breeder sell me a dog because of the trust that I'll not destroy he's pride and joy and he's not taking me as a 'water fish'!