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is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship?

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aragorn2976
Ultra ALPHA

Jan 16, 2004, 12:29 AM

Post #26 of 53 (824 views)
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Re: [PSD] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi...

Been watching this thread with great interest... Smile

Hmmmm... Have to agree with you on that point. Millers will destroy these two breeds with indescriminate breeding... Unsure

It will only be a matter of time before it happens.

*sigh*... I'm a great lover of JRTs and these days, I see a lot of pups in the "market" and sometimes, looking at their size, I wonder if they are healthy and happy just like my own JRT. I just hope the breed here in KL will stay healthy, but in reality, what you prophesized will probably turn true if enforcement doesn't step in... Unsure

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Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God. - 1 John 4:7 (Oofy's motto)

a_evie
Doggyman

Jan 16, 2004, 12:39 AM

Post #27 of 53 (824 views)
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Re: [PSD] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

there are good breeders...but a mere handful...

as for seeing the trend..quite right...we see lots of gr and jrt being offered....sad. feels like folks are cashing in on a very commercial basis.

a_evie
Doggyman

Jan 16, 2004, 12:49 AM

Post #28 of 53 (819 views)
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Re: [aragorn2976] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

we need proper enforcement for all animals...pet shops and breeders are selling indiscrimately.

read about spca spore yesterday...they are actually urging the goct to relook into the number of anilams that pet shops sell..some sort of quota thingy.

harsh as it may be...but it is quite true. on my own...i have seen so many terrapins being thrown into ponds or vene die of neglect..yeah tough creatures...but can die of neglect.

met a poor green colored lizard (that is sold so rampantly everywhere) with a chopped off tail abandoned outside pets wonderland...saw some folks releasing their rabbits in parks because cannpt handle or even release their hamsters at bandar tun razak park...all because parents bought for children...and when the children don't want to handle the pets (new toilet syndrome over) they find the easy way out...give away or release...or neglect until die! Mad

aragorn2976
Ultra ALPHA

Jan 16, 2004, 12:55 AM

Post #29 of 53 (817 views)
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Re: [a_evie] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Am sure you've seen the show Animal Precinct. The enforcement officers are very strict with people who neglect or abuse their animals.

Hmmm... Besides that, I think enforcement should be done to check the breeder so that they don't breed unhealthy dogs for profit. Am sure there are plenty of cases out there regarding consumer rights for dogs bought from a breeder found to be diseased due to poor breeding...

*sigh*....

Join the JRT Zone

Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God. - 1 John 4:7 (Oofy's motto)

PSD
ALPHA

Jan 16, 2004, 1:12 AM

Post #30 of 53 (817 views)
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Re: [aragorn2976] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Aragorn,

Quote

*sigh*... I'm a great lover of JRTs and these days, I see a lot of pups in the "market" and sometimes, looking at their size, I wonder if they are healthy and happy just like my own JRT. I just hope the breed here in KL will stay healthy, but in reality, what you prophesized will probably turn true if enforcement doesn't step in...

When the buying stops the killing will stop too..... Laugh

Actually dont hope for enforcement. Who is going to do it? The real critical point here is the buyers ourselves. If buyers can be educated to a level of understanding of what a dog breed should be like specifically and have knowledge of how to basicly see if a dog is temprementally sound and not a potential fear monster. Then the battle is already won. Sadly, a big percentage of the market are all about Awww! How cute! and then lived with the tons of health issues later. Some get lucky but some got really hurt. Therefore it pays to know what you are buying.

Actually, I'm not gifted with any prophetical abilities......u will know what they go for next depending on the pupularity of that breed. Their aim is just to sell the puppies fast and all these depends on what is more pupular in the market today. Puppy millers this is their modus operandi.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

a_evie
Doggyman

Jan 16, 2004, 1:29 AM

Post #31 of 53 (812 views)
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Re: [PSD] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

fully agreed. woof woof...from shalom!

a_evie
Doggyman

Jan 16, 2004, 1:31 AM

Post #32 of 53 (811 views)
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Re: [aragorn2976] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

it takes all...both the breeder, the buyer as well as the enforcement. all need to put in a helping hand and not wait for an epidermic or horror story to happen before taking action.

guess epidermic is the wrong word...but something along the lines that when a condition cannot be controlled or too much damage is done...damage control also no use. the harm is done. Frown

aragorn2976
Ultra ALPHA

Jan 16, 2004, 1:33 AM

Post #33 of 53 (811 views)
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Re: [PSD] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hmmmm...

It is true. On one hand, there must be "caveat empor" (let the buyer beware) and on the other hand, there must be some form of protection for the buyer/dogs too. Enforcement is difficult, I must admit as there are logistic, legal and not to mention corruption issues that come along with it.

I agree with you.... A lot of the "awww... So cute" factor sometimes rule their decision for getting a particular type of dog. I still remember the case when 101 Dalmations movie came out and lots of people decided to just get a Dal just because it was cute. They didn't do the necc research and understanding of the breed. Hence, there was a surplus of unwanted Dals...

Hmmm... true.. I think for a puppy miller, they just have to hang out at petstores and watch for a while to see which breed is most marketable... Unsure

Join the JRT Zone

Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God. - 1 John 4:7 (Oofy's motto)

aragorn2976
Ultra ALPHA

Jan 16, 2004, 2:10 AM

Post #34 of 53 (810 views)
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Re: [a_evie] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hmmm...

Like what PSD said "When the buying stop... The Killing Can too.."

Join the JRT Zone

Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God. - 1 John 4:7 (Oofy's motto)

nathalie
Doggyman

Jan 16, 2004, 9:37 AM

Post #35 of 53 (805 views)
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Re: [PSD] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

totally agree with u...when they produce pups of low or even no quality...who will suffer eventually?

it's us the consumer n dog lovers but the worst are those innocent dogs. labs too r getting bad names...of 6 of the labs i've encountered...at least 4 or not more have HD be it mild or serious....it's sad but those pBYB do not care..what they want is just $$$$ out of the dogs they own...though some citing 'impressive' reasons such as....if i give him good food i need to spend..so the only way to cover is to breed.

thus they'll breed their dogs every season n eventually the bitch is just a profit making machine n the qualities deteriorates...resulting pups which are totally out of their standards.

PSD
ALPHA

Jan 16, 2004, 8:18 PM

Post #36 of 53 (799 views)
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Re: [nathalie] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

labs too r getting bad names...of 6 of the labs i've encountered...at least 4 or not more have HD be it mild or serious....

The labs u mentioned, are they from pet stores or from which breeder? I'm just curious cause I dont see much labs breeders around. Please mail me if it is sensitive.

Quote

though some citing 'impressive' reasons such as....if i give him good food i need to spend..so the only way to cover is to breed.

Wow! That is impressively sick indeed. You should just ask them not to have the dog in the first place. Then they dont have to bother themselves over money for the food. But really all should think about this, if the buyers are aware and knows about this, nobody will buy from such person or shops. By then there will no longer be such type of breeding.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

nathalie
Doggyman

Jan 16, 2004, 9:54 PM

Post #37 of 53 (796 views)
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Re: [PSD] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

some of the labs r directly from breeders n some are from the petshops...some even came with champion titles...though i know these titles does not mean the dog's r healthy.....

u r rite...they really gave lame excuses. so i guess they r just rearing their pets for investment...

when i ask them wheter r they aware about ur responsibility as a breeder? they answered me...take care of them, give better food n sell the pups...problem is what if they don't get the buyer?

their very fast answer...keep them...but we both know what r they going to do again rite?

PSD
ALPHA

Jan 16, 2004, 11:03 PM

Post #38 of 53 (793 views)
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Re: [nathalie] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

give better food n sell the pups...problem is what if they don't get the buyer?

their very fast answer...keep them...but we both know what r they going to do again rite?

Well if a breeder like this who then take advantage of the situation and then breeds the ones left over that nobody wants for whatever reasons.....I wonder what will happen to the so-called improvement of breed?

I would say that unless a person aim is to improve on the breed, to get a better breed structure, to get better health, better resistance, better temprement and study the requirement and knowhow of how to educatedly do it. Competes with their own produced dogs to see and prove their own research and productions......only should such person be a breeder. All others not having the above as their basic traits are lame excuses of a breeder.....IMHO.

I like to ask this one simple standard question of every breeder I meet,

"Do you compete with your own dogs?" ................. hehehe! That will really take them off footing.....so called millers cannot produce a good enough dog to even last 2 rounds in a match show let alone for showing in a bigger competition.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

a_evie
Doggyman

Jan 17, 2004, 1:56 AM

Post #39 of 53 (785 views)
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Re: [nathalie] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

true...i've seen a fair numbers of gs that were given the tag "champion parents", "would be show dog quality" only to finally discover that the dog has hd or some other temperaments...making 1st time owners (some out to make money ones)...so dissapointed...and resulting in irresponsible behaviour...eg requesting that the dog be put down. sad but true. i know of 1 ex neighbour who actually did that... Frown

RealityDreamer
Doggyman

Jan 17, 2004, 2:20 AM

Post #40 of 53 (784 views)
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Re: [Anqi] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

wow. Been busy for a few days and this thread has really got quite a number of replies.

I agree 110% with them. I do hope your friend researches on the breed and learns the responsibility of breeding. It's no easy task and definitely not cheap.
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)

PSD
ALPHA

Jan 17, 2004, 5:23 AM

Post #41 of 53 (782 views)
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Re: [Anqi, RealityDreamer] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

I do hope your friend researches on the breed and learns the responsibility of breeding. It's no easy task and definitely not cheap

Anqi/RD,

this is absolutely true, breeding must start from the undivided love of the breed. It is then becomes a pleasure to learn how to get a proper match making so that breed standards can be observed at the highest standard. It is because of this as per one member wrote "breeding will not make u rich"

I hope you understand my intention here, not wanting to sound aggressive but hopefully you can understand this important issue better. You are a dog lover and I'm sure you will want the best for the breed of your choice. Best to leave breeding to the experienced hand. If your friend wants to seriously make this into a serious business venture, he should study some canine genetics and research the breed he wants to get into. This will then be best for everyone...the breeder, the buyer and the dog.

The world needs more responsible breeder. Smile

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

kesuke
Doggyman

Jan 17, 2004, 8:14 AM

Post #42 of 53 (776 views)
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Re: [PSD] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

wow...this thread is interesting....but it will never end...the questions and answers and everything will go on and on...i think most of the members here are aware of the puppy mill thingy...and more are definitely learning about the importance of doing your homework before getting a dog and not on the "aww...how cute" factor...so this forum is definitely going in the right direction in educating ppl on this issue...now we just have to let more ppl to know about this doggy forum...
sometimes i just feel like want to hit those so-called breeders on their head and then yell at him "do you even know what you are doing? do you even THINK of what you are doing??" man...these people are really scumbag...

Sorely missed and always remembered - Beloved Billy
Penang lang? Click here!!

nathalie
Doggyman

Jan 17, 2004, 9:49 AM

Post #43 of 53 (774 views)
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Re: [a_evie] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

dissapointing right? when u pay for a dog, regardless of champion line or show quality..the minimum i should get out of the dog is one without health problems...n yet u must foot a long bill for medication.

plus they are smart, when they sell the pups at 2 months..the Hd cannot be accurately identified...so nothing can be done..wait till a few months later when the problem resurfaced, they'll shun their responsibilities off u n put on an ugly tug of war show pushing the responsibilities to the owner when it's quite obvious that the problem lies on it's genetics Mad

PSD
ALPHA

Jan 26, 2004, 10:15 PM

Post #44 of 53 (761 views)
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Re: [kesuke] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

Kesuke-san,

I think no need to be violent on them lah! The key is education. Once the buyer knows then the millers will not have an easy task. "When the buying stops, the killing can too" Although I would love it myself to have a puppy miller become a decoy for my dogs minus the protective clothing Sly

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

boon
Doggyman

Jan 26, 2004, 11:59 PM

Post #45 of 53 (758 views)
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Re: [PSD] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

wei with the bite suit also nevermind lah, make sure ur mongrel run fast enuf to knock them down the ground flat.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

kesuke
Doggyman

Jan 27, 2004, 7:24 AM

Post #46 of 53 (746 views)
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Re: [PSD] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

haha...couldn't agree more with boon...some fang-showing and some growling from your top GSDs would have the puppy millers in tears and shit in no time.. Laugh

btw, HAPPY CHINESE NEW YEAR to all!!

Sorely missed and always remembered - Beloved Billy
Penang lang? Click here!!

PSD
ALPHA

Jan 27, 2004, 8:16 PM

Post #47 of 53 (743 views)
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Re: [kesuke, Boon] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

kakakakak, Good one...... Laugh

...cant stop laughing reding what you wrote there....lol. Actually just to let you know, a strong nerved GSD rarely growl.....the just go straight in if threatened. Growling and hackling is a sign of poor nerve threshold depending on the threat level.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

kesuke
Doggyman

Jan 27, 2004, 9:58 PM

Post #48 of 53 (737 views)
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Re: [PSD] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

muahah...glad to make you laugh.... Cool

really? i thought dogs growl to give warning when they feel threatened?

Sorely missed and always remembered - Beloved Billy
Penang lang? Click here!!

PSD
ALPHA

Jan 27, 2004, 10:22 PM

Post #49 of 53 (735 views)
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Re: [kesuke] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Kesuke,

They growl when their nerve threshold had been breached. They no more feel secured or confident. The grawl means "Please move away, I dont like this stress"

Alternatively a confident dog will look you in the eye and you can read it from his eye not to mess with him. That is an imposing look. No growling is necessary cause he is fully confident of himself able to handle this stress. His nerve threshold is never breached. Any further threats will give him a go ahead to engage. Of course, well trained dogs will only respond to real threats.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

PSD
ALPHA

Jan 27, 2004, 10:22 PM

Post #50 of 53 (735 views)
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Re: [kesuke] is that a puppy borned without cert, the whole of life will not get a register MKA cert & microship? [In reply to]	Can't Post

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